Does anyone else think a dark side of the right wing is showing its face lately?

Keith Olbermann set me straight with this video, because of my ignorance, I was under the impression this ‘mosque’ was going to be an actual mosque. I was not thinking clearly and I was listening to the wrong sources. Keith Olbermann is the man :)

The right wing has a light side? Since Reagan was president, I have only seen the side where they take care of their friends, sell off or lease public assets at bargain basement prices, subsidize the transfer the jobs out of the country, and rob the social security system.

They are also dedicated to overthrowing or marginalizing the Democratic President and any liberal or progressive party, encouraging in-fighting between minorities, vilifying minorities, immigrants (especially Mexican), the poor, black, Hispanic, gays, peace activists, Muslims, people that believe in global warming, non-Christians, atheists, secular humanists. I am sure that the list goes on. You name it and the right has an organization to address and expand the problem. They even have people like Bill Kristol searching for new groups to hate.

I’ve never seen the right wing be particularly… calm about anything. Besides, when the Democrats are in power, they’re not going to be happy, so they’ll find something to criticize and to throw new things at.

That’s just my opinion – I’m only 18, so maybe I don’t know as much as the rest of you guys, but I just wanted to share it. (:

@Blackberry – Just out of curiosity… why would you not support it if it was an actual mosque? I’m not saying that you still believe that, but I just wanted to know what you thought.

@troubleinharlem I just pictured some huge mecca-like structure lol…....Yes..I know, it’s embarrasing lol. I was not fervently against it, I just heard that a mosque was being put there, I didn’t research anything, I just listened to other misinformed people.

if Obama wins a second term, i have a feeling, possibly a slightly naive hope, that he will push his left of centre policies much harder, but of course the following term, after that, will see the Republicans back in, with their own candidate (not Palin) running against Hillary Clinton (if she isn’t frazzled by then.) But i’m not really clued up on the technicalities of American politics, it all seems pretty pendulous to me. Reminds me of a ship at sea, a stormy sea, that tilts precariously toward starboard, so everybody runs to Port and visa versa, this is so engrossing that no-body pays any attention to the cabin boy frantically pointing and yelling at them to avoid the oncoming rocks!

So Right-Wingers are evil because they don’t like Obama? Or they don’t like Democrats? Or they don’t like Nancy or Harry, or incredibly massive debt? What?? Why do you think that right-wingers are evil?

@tedd, ”Its been one bigoted thing after another with the far right wing in the US. Now first let me say this is not a blanket assessment, and I do know and have heard many famous Republicans/Conservatives/Right wing people who are perfectly sane/non-bigoted and even deride their crazier friends in some situations… BUT… It seems like they are just out to hate on everyone lately.”

Something to clear up, there is no such thing as hate in America unless it’s done out of physical violence. There is something called freedom of speech in America.

@tedd, ”Now I start with immigrants (though I guess they’ve never been huge fans).“

Aside from native Americans, all of America consists of immigrants. Therefore, how exactly are immigrants not huge fans?

@tedd, ”The latest thing being this immigration law down in Arizona that lets cops stop people who they “suspect” might be illegal immigrants (aka anyone who looks Mexican) and check their papers. That’s ridiculous. Talk about profiling.“

The law states illegal immigrants, not “aka anyone who looks a Mexican” Please refrain from personal distastes in regards to law matters. If and only if the law states illegal Mexicans, only then would it be considered profiling. Don’t manipulate the facts to support your motives.

@tedd, ”Why not go after the massive companies that are hiring these illegal immigrants? Oh I forgot, those same massive companies are paying you money.”

Who says they don’t?

@tedd, ”The big one at the moment is the mosque a few blocks from ground zero. It seems the far right wants to throw all of Islam under a bus because there is a tiny tiny TINY fraction of Muslims who are trying to wage war with out country. If you go read the comments section on any article covering the topic on like yahoo news, you’ll get sick to your stomach. There are apparently lots of people who downright hate Muslims, want them thrown out of the country, no new mosques and burn down the old ones, Muslims are all evil, etc, etc. It really saddens and sickens me.”

Speculation on your part. How do you make such broad comments based on a couple of hateful comments on the internet? How do you even associate those comments as right wings? Furthermore, please refer to freedom of speech in America. You don’t like the laws of the country you’re free to leave.

@tedd, ”It also tells me a lot about the Republican party.”

Really? How? All the lack of evidence you presented to support your seemingly claims?

@tedd, ”The economy is recovering but barely, that’s a PERFECT target. I mean honestly I think the only reason we’re gaining any jobs is thanks to the Dems, but I don’t think anyone is happy with how slow the recovery is going.”

Wrong. Summer numbers show far worse results then were expected. You call this recovery?...“With the departure of thousands of temporary Census workers and thousands more let go by state and local governments, businesses could not rescue the American labor market in July. Over all, the nation lost 131,000 jobs last month, according to the Department of Labor, which also said that June was far weaker than previously indicated.Private employers added 71,000 jobs last month, but those figures were overtaken by the 143,000 cut as the Census wound down. It is also about half the number that economists say is needed to simply accommodate population growth, so the tepid job increases cannot begin to plug the hole created by the loss of more than eight million jobs during the recession. The unemployment rate, in fact, remained stuck at 9.5 percent in July. The Labor Department greatly revised its headline number for June, widening the job loss figure for that month to 221,000 jobs, from 125,000. Private sector hiring in June, originally reported at 83,000, was lowered to 31,000.”

@tedd, ”And instead they choose to stir up fear about a mosque near ground zero, and immigrants spreading crime/disease and taking everyone’s jobs. Pure ignorance and fear mongering imo.”

Refer to previous comments. These opinions aren’t even rational.

@void You can try and justify it and twist facts all you want, all I see is bigotry and ignorance.

Don’t believe me? Go to yahoo.com, click on anything involving that mosque, and read the comments. Then refresh the page, and look at 20 new comments. Repeat this for about 5 minutes until it saddens you that some of these people are the same species as you. Then realize that this story has had a few hundred posts in the past 2 minutes, and everytime you click for a new 20 you’re hard pressed to find more than 5 that don’t make you sick to your stomach.

And the economy has gained jobs for 6 months straight. The problem is that its a few tens of thousands of jobs every month and that doesn’t cover the MILLIONS that Bush and the Republicans cost us by driving the economy into the ground.

@CaptainHarley I don’t think most right wingers are evil, or even have nefarious intentions. In fact I didn’t call out any of their policies or opinions towards the Democratic leadership. What I pointed out is that rather than target Obama and company in areas where they have ground to win (the slow recoving economy, the oil spill response, energy policy, etc, etc) they’ve chosen to go after the issues that stir up fear in people. “The immigrants are coming to steal your jobs and rob you!” “Look out, the evil muslims are setting up a monument to their murders at ground zero!!!” Its all fear mongering meant to turn your eyes away from issues that actually matter. And frankly it makes me sad to see that so many people in our country are so driven to madness and bigotry. I never thought I’d see the day that it would be controversial for a mainstream religion whose members encompass nearly ⅓ of the worlds total population to set up a religious building somewhere. This is America. AMERICA…. we’re supposed to be better than that…. Hell freedom of religion is one of our founding principles.

@tedd I agree re: yahoo.com comments. They’re truly horrifying. I fear for the country if these people actually vote in upcoming elections.

@tedd, _”You can try and justify it and twist facts all you want, all I see is bigotry and ignorance.

I told you, bigotry is allowed in America due to freedom of speech. I know how much you don’t like this concept to which I suggested you are free to leave. Ignorance? Why? Because you had some poor personal experiences? Therefore, the entire right wing movement must be evil? Let see if you agree to this then, I think you are a simpleton. Should I now think that since you are simpleton, then everyone else must be a simpleton as well?

@tedd, ”And the economy has gained jobs for 6 months straight. The problem is that its a few tens of thousands of jobs every month and that doesn’t cover the MILLIONS that Bush and the Republicans cost us by driving the economy into the ground.”

Yes, it was a small increase for six months, but how exactly can you call it a recovery after the summer numbers I showed you displayed a downward trend back into the almost original economic state? If it isn’t consistent, then it isn’t a recovery. This is what obama does, blames bush for all the mess. What a wonderful idea, when you can’t fix a problem, you blame someone else.

@tedd, ”Don’t believe me? Go to yahoo.com, click on anything involving that mosque, and read the comments. Then refresh the page, and look at 20 new comments. Repeat this for about 5 minutes until it saddens you that some of these people are the same species as you.”

I believe you, and this is called freedom of speech. However, to say that this is the work of the right wingers or the fact that all right wingers are evil because of such and such, is purely speculative. It’s your personal distaste, and your right to speak freely. I’m just calling you out on your claims.

@Void You’re right there’s freedom of speech, that doesn’t make it calming or not unsettling to see that so many people are using that freedom to deride an entire religion of people. THAT is ignorance. And I didn’t say the entire right wing is evil, if you read my initial post I point that out explicitly to begin with.

If you take the census jobs out of the mix, our economy has gained jobs for the last 6 months straight INCLUDING July (last month). The problem is that THANKS TO BUSH (you might hate him and us saying it, but it IS true) our economy lost what 8 million jobs? But frankly I’ll take gained 10k-50k over lost 750k-2million any month. Heck I’ll go even further back and thank REAGAN for the 7 or so trillion dollars of our CURRENT national debt that he racked up (more than Bush and Obama combined to this point). But thats a moot point anyways since my point originally was why don’t the Republicans call him out on that rather than spend all day on Fox news stirring up fear and anger over a mosque near ground zero, and immigrants sneaking into our country and taking menial jobs for grossly low pay.

And as far as yahoo, again I don’t think all right wingers are evil, read my entire comment and stop cherry picking the things you expect/think I say whilst ignoring the rest. And its not very speculative to say that right wingers (be they conservative political leaders or conservative media leaders) are speaking out against the mosque and stirring up the issue. Both Minority leaders, Palin, Beck, O’Rielly, Gingrich, the guy from Mississippi, etc, etc, have all spoken out against the Mosque in recent days.

@tedd, ”You’re right there’s freedom of speech, that doesn’t make it calming or not unsettling to see that so many people are using that freedom to deride an entire religion of people. THAT is ignorance. And I didn’t say the entire right wing is evil, if you read my initial post I point that out explicitly to begin with.”

Fair enough, but I asked you, how does a few ignorant comments speak on the behalf of everyone else? You also associated those comments with right wingers. How exactly can you see that? How do you know that everyone’s arguments consists of generalizing an entire religion? Why can’t it be other X factors? You have some statistics for your claims? This is a baseless speculation. I can do the same thing in opposition to yours based on personal experiences.

@tedd, ”If you take the census jobs out of the mix,”

Why should we take it out? This is the key points. The entire next sentence doesn’t work without the key point (end result).

@tedd, ”Our economy has gained jobs for the last 6 months straight INCLUDING July (last month). The problem is that THANKS TO BUSH (you might hate him and us saying it, but it IS true) our economy lost what 8 million jobs? But frankly I’ll take gained 10k-50k over lost 750k-2million any month. But thats a moot point anyways”

If the end result is a downward trend then it isn’t a recovery. A recovery has to be consistent. It’s not true that it’s thanks to bush, sorry. This is a cop out to protect Obamas failure. Shifting blames does not solve problems. Alright, you want to end this point. Fine.

@tedd, ”Why don’t the Republicans call him out on that rather than spend all day on Fox news stirring up fear and anger over a mosque near ground zero?”

I asked you before, who says they don’t call him out on that? The discussions on fox news, are just that, discussions. Nothing to do with fear and anger. It’s how each individual understands and takes in the information internally.

@tedd, ”And as far as yahoo, again I don’t think all right wingers are evil, read my entire comment and stop cherry picking the things you expect/think I say whilst ignoring the rest. ”

I didn’t cherry pick and ignore everything else. I replied to all your points.

@tedd, ”And its not very speculative to say that right wingers (be they conservative political leaders or conservative media leaders) are speaking out against the mosque and stirring up the issue. “

If you claim they are ignorant, then how do you know they aren’t ignorant of politics all together?

@tedd, ”Both Minority leaders, Palin, Beck, O’Rielly, Gingrich, the guy from Mississippi, etc, etc, have all spoken out against the Mosque in recent days.”

Alright? You don’t agree with there arguments, that’s fine. It’s a debate. Your argument is ignorance. However, ignorance is not displayed in there arguments, it’s valid points. You don’t become a politician by using words such as “ignorance” or “you suck” , “they suck” as arguments. Therefore, if you disagree on there arguments, you argue back points, or bring in new points, not by using one word, ignorance.

@Void umm, the economy has been on an upward trend, not a downward one. The complaint is its not upward enough. Since Obama has taken office, the stock market rebounded massively, jobs rebounded massively, manufacturing rebounded massively, banking, automotives, even housing to some degree… ALL rebounded and have been growing. I said to take the census jobs out because they’re a complete negation. They added 150k or whatever one month, then took that 150 or so k away a few months later, hence they don’t play into it, and yet the economy still gains jobs each month without them.

But arguing with you is a waste of time. You’re only seeing what you want to see in my arguments, and picking parts of it apart whilst ignoring the rest. And you’re glossing over the intent of the post to begin with, to point out that a frighteningly large number of Americans, who would almost entirely consider themselves conservative members of the right wing, are saying things that are so vitriolic, hateful, and bigoted… they make me think I’ve been transported to some time a few thousand years ago.

@tedd, ”umm, the economy has been on an upward trend, not a downward one. The complaint is its not upward enough. Since Obama has taken office, the stock market rebounded massively, jobs rebounded massively, manufacturing rebounded massively, banking, automotive, even housing to some degree… ALL rebounded and have been growing. I said to take the census jobs out because they’re a complete negation. They added 150k or whatever one month, then took that 150 or so k away a few months later, hence they don’t play into it, and yet the economy still gains jobs each month without them.”

I thought you letting this point go? Didn’t you say it’s “moot”. If not, then explain to me how the summer numbers I showed you are showing an upward trend, when they are showing a downward one? How do you just conveniently remove census? Remove facts that don’t help your point of view? Interesting. I like how you added in to illegal immigrants “aka, illegal mexicans”

@tedd, ”But arguing with you is a waste of time. You’re only seeing what you want to see in my arguments, and picking parts of it apart whilst ignoring the rest.”

The feeling is mutual. What point did I ignore? I replied to every point you made and called you out on it. It is you who are ignoring my reply’s because they display your falsehood.

@tedd, ”And you’re glossing over the intent of the post to begin with, to point out that a frighteningly large number of Americans, who would almost entirely consider themselves conservative members of the right wing, are saying things that are so vitriolic, hateful, and bigoted… they make me think I’ve been transported to some time a few thousand years ago.”

Ahm, speculation on your part, you’re now displaying this ignorance you speak of, and bigotry for the fellow right wingers. Furthermore, yet again, I suggest you refer to freedom of speech. You’re actually practicing it as we converse, yet you are against it, oh wait, it’s alright, but these people are “ignorant”. How hypocritical of you.

@CaptainHarley right wingers do not like an educated middle class. Please notice all the vast majority of policy and legal decision since his disastrous reign have cost the middle class, money, jobs, and power. Wealth has primarily shifted to the top 2% and current law (passed during the Bush administration) protects their children from inherited taxes to insure that the wealth stays with the family so that it can be safely invested overseas.

The right wingers that aren’t evil are either mislead or stupid.

@Void : I’m not going to say if I think you’re right or if you’re wrong, but… don’t you think that there’s a better way of telling people what you think? Maybe in a more less harsh way? You telling someone that your way has to be true at all costs won’t make friends on any level.

But about Obama, do you expect this whole process to happen overnight? It’s not going to happen in a snap, it’ll take years to fully take affect.

Oh, and one more thing. You said ”Something to clear up, there is no such thing as hate in America unless it’s done out of physical violence. There is something called freedom of speech in America.” When did hate have to become strictly physical? That’s just something I’m curious about.

I don’t mean to offend you in any way, mind you, but some of the things that @tedd said may very well be true, and some of the things you said could be true, but that doesn’t mean that anyone has to be mean when explaining their side of the argument, you know?

please don’t freak out at me.

@troubleinharlem, ”I’m not going to say if I think you’re right or if you’re wrong, but… don’t you think that there’s a better way of telling people what you think? Maybe in a more less harsh way? You telling someone that your way has to be true at all costs won’t make friends on any level.”

Well, I don’t think I was harsh, therefore, I can’t answer you until you tell me how exactly was I harsh? I wasn’t making claims, so what does “my way has to be true” have anything to do with it? Furthermore, I’m not looking to make friends, therefore, it’s not an issue here.

@troubleinharlem, ”But about Obama, do you actually expect this whole process to happen overnight? It’s not going to happen in a snap, it’ll take years to fully take affect.”

I’m well aware that the process is long, but @tedd was gloating that the economy is in recovery thanks to democracy. All I did was show @tedd that the latest summer numbers which are showing that the six month recovery trend is now heading downward, not as bad as 2009 numbers, but that’s where it shows it’s going. I’m sure it will eventually go back up, but it can also eventually go back down. Currently, it’s down and heading down.

@troubleinharlem, ”I don’t mean to offend you in any way, mind you, but some of the things that @tedd said may very well be true, and some of the things you said could be true, but that doesn’t mean that anyone has to be mean when explaining their side of the argument, you know?”

Again, refer to the comment I made above.

Both sides make their living by selling the American people fear.

The Republicans sell us the fear of anyone who does not think the same way they do.

The Democrats sell us the fear of Republicans.

@Blackberry

Here’s one right-wing concept of the proposed Park 51 facility

The Arizona law only lets the police ask about immigration status if they are already involved with the person for another legal reason, (pulled over for speeding, domestic disturbance situation, etc.) They can’t just pull you over because you look like you are illegal. It is actually a milder form of the federal law that the gov. chooses for the most part not to enforce.

Personally, I think both the Democrats and the Republicans are currently rearing their ugly heads today.

@Russell_D_SpacePoet You are correct, but the police have a long list of things they can pull you over for already, and they just don’t because there’s too much paperwork. You can be pulled over for not having on both license plates (if you’re in one of those states). If any of your brake lights, turn signals, or head lights are out you can be pulled over. Cracked windshield, yep they can pull you over. Your tires look like they’re a bit old and possibly unsafe to drive, you can be pulled over. Looks like you grazed that white line, I’m gonna pull you over, etc, etc…. And thats not even counting the things they can stop and question you for just on the side walk. You look like a suspicious person to me, show me your ID.

Not to say that all, or even most police in Arizona are that big of D-bags and would do that… But it only takes one in my opinion to make it a violation of civil rights. And I would wager that there’s far more than one (see that crazy sheriff they have down there).

@Void I’m not against freedom of speech whatsoever, you making that assumption is more of your continued ignorance. I was pointing out that it saddens and sickens me to see so many people using their freedom of speech to preach such hate and vitriol, as if suddenly the entire populace sank to the level of Neo-Nazi scumbags (whom also have a freedom of speech, but say things that will make you cringe).

And OK keep the census if you want, so you have 5 straight months of jobs gained including one month of massive job gains that can be attributed to the census, one month of losses which can entirely be attributed to the census. And I’ll bet you money right now that next month we have more jobs gained. Sure looks a lot better than the three and four hundred thousand jobs lost a month Bush was giving us….

And there’s no speculation in my stating that most of the people speaking this vitriol are right wingers. They throw out comments of DOWN WITH OBAMA, THROW OUT THE SOCIALISTS!!, and other propaganda crap they’ve been fed by Fox news and other crazies…many of their comments even list things the “liberals” have done and why they think its destroying the country (like health care for example)... thats IN their posts where they also deride Islam….. its pretty clear to me they’re right wingers on a whole.

@tedd, here is a reply I gave to a different thread. It’s basically showing that it isn’t ignorant rants but rather rational arguments. Now, consider these points, and then reconsider your statements.

Grouns Zero A Shrine or Shariah

Similar Link

What Rudy Giuliana

Imam Unmosqued

Recent Polls Taken

Here is the similar fluther thread that’s discussing this topic.

Link to thread

@tedd I know that any time I have been pulled over, I have always been asked for my id. Should the police not ask for your id? Were the police racially profiling me because I was pulled over for speeding or my turn signal was out and they ask for my id? I think not. You do realize in any other country you are supposed to carry your papers with you. Passport, visa, etc. Is that racial profiling or common sense? We have an illegal immigration problem that the federal gov. has chosen to enforce in some cases and not in others. The crux of the problem is that the gov. has not enforced the border like they should have been. The Arizona law is basically a cry for help to our gov.
I also find it odd you didn’t mention sanctuary cities. I guess it’s ok for them to violate the immigration laws with their policies while you rail against Arizona law that supports federal immigration law. The sanctuary cities ignore immigration law for the most part.

@void THIS sounds like bigotry ignorance and vitriol… these are a few DIRECT QUOTES from yahoo right now (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_mosque_divided_democrats)

-Let me make this perfectly clear!! Islam has NO PLACE in global demographics or demographics. The comic book known as the Quran, is just that, a comic book filled with rhetoric and slander against all of human kind.

-Because you want to put it at ground Zero where your muslim brothers slaughtered, murdered 3,000 innocent Americans, Get It. IDIOT.

-This is like building a Nazi museum on the lower east side.

-It’s a VICTORY SYMBOL, and our “leaders” are helping them

-Obama just come out and say you are a MUSLIM!!!!!!

-There is no misconception about obama. The man is a liar in the first order…... We don’t know what he is now do we? He has paid millions to falsify his birth certificate and conceal his school records. But, he forgot about the article that Associated Press ran in 2004: Kenya born Senator hopeful Barack Hussein Obama

-“ANY RELIGION OTHER THAN ISLAM IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!..from their own Quran…What else is there to know? THERE IT IS… (apparently this person forgot the “thou shalt have no god other than myself” commandment…)

-It really does not take much thought,ther were no muslims among our founding fathers,it is not a religion but a cult and a dark cult at that.They hate us and want us dead.Ther are too many mosques now they are the enemy.

-Obama is muslim.

-To All you Mosque supporters Do this Country a Favor and go live in the Middle East and see how you like living under the guise of there so called peaceful religion.

-The first muslim president hopefully is the last muslim president. imam obama sounds a lot more legitimate than president obama!

All you have to do is hit refresh and read. I only had to do it 3 times, and I skipped a lot of the more lengthy hate filled diatribes.

@Russell_D_SpacePoet Asking for ID and asking for immigration papers are two very different things. Many illegal immigrants have ID, and I have no problem with anyone being pulled over for speeding being asked to see their ID. What I do have a problem with is the inevitable use of this law by some officer, who will pull over someone he thinks is an illegal using some crap law like a tail light was out, and then proceed to ask for their papers…. If that person is an american citizen, imo his rights will have been violated. (and heaven hope thats as bad as it gets)

@tedd, yes I’m aware of yahoo. Now look at the new links I gave you. Consider these points and then reconsider your statements.

@tedd You are convicting the Az. police before anything has happened. Any law put on the books has the potential to be abused by any officer that is subpar, racist, etc. That being said, we wouldn’t have any laws if we followed your logic that someone will abuse the law. That is the chance for every law. That is why we have to review the performance of the law and adjust if the need arises. Also, I am fairly sure if you give an officer a legal drivers license and insurance, he should really have no reason to ask about immigration status. BTW, a tail light being out is a legal reason to pull someone over. Should we do away with that law also? Just so the “bigoted” police can’t use that against illegals?

@Russell_D_SpacePoet Driving 2 miles an hour over the speed limit is also illegal, but a cop is only likely to pull you over for it if he thinks you are a suspicious person, or assumes you are guilty of something else. And I’m not necessarily convicting the AZ police, I’m condemning the giving away of another freedom.

@tedd I don’t see how a law that is less restrictive than federal law, has taken anything from us. We already had to identify ourselves when pulled over or involved with law enforcement.

@tedd, I still didn’t hear back from you about the information I gave you. Are you still planing to rant away about bigotry and ignorance, or are you now going to consider the valid points?

@Void No I decided that debating with you is like debating with a brick wall and I wasn’t going to raise my blood pressure for the sake of it.