Do you think Bill Wiese and Mary K Baxter are frauds?

I have never read either of their accounts, so I cannot comment on the content and attendant validity issues. But I do believe that it is at least possible.

I just did a quick search on Baxter and found this site which points out a list of fallacies.

I believe these are fanatical people with an agenda. If you lie to yourself long enough and hard enough, you create an altered reality for yourself. I have no doubt that these people believe what they say is true, and in their fabricated parallel reality, it is true. People create a world based on moral righteousness and will do anything to drive home the message.

People create alternate realities all the time in different degrees—drug users who believe they are in a better place using, and no harm is being created, people who smoke and think they will dodge the bullet for health issues, people who sleep around, contract STDs or HIV and are dumbfounded that it happened to them.

Most of contemporary perceptions of Hell come from Dante, and not the Bible.

I live up the road from the Creation Museum, where people believe T-Rex was on the Ark with Noah.

It reminds me of when I heard about 2 patients at a mental health facility who both claimed to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. The doctors thought it might be therapeutic to make them roommates, but they ended up not speaking much to each other—each content in his own delusion.

Interestingly, Bill Wiese was apparentely an atheist before his “visions” of hell. Mary Baxter was already a religious fundamentalist. I have read parts of each of these books (when I have time) but both accounts of hell are somewhat different.

I am a theist, I do think nde are a real spiritual experience. However, I am very skeptical of these two accounts of hell. First off, neither of them were actually near death. They both claim that they were chosen to be taken to hell while they were sleeping. Bill Wiese I recall as saying that he knew it wasn’t a nightmare because he remembers seeing his body lying in bed. I think they are both deliberate frauds (my opinion). I think Howard Storm’s near death experience of “hell” was real however.

Most fundamentalist make up near death experiences to scare people into converting to their religious beliefs because the “ends justify the means”. People who (in my opinion) that had a real near death experience usually do not even think about this stuff, including many atheists and agnostics. I believe hell is a real place but not a physical place in the center of the earth with searing flames nor is it eternal. More like a dark void (at least from the near death accounts I am convinced of).

@worriedguy Yeah I personally have seen that websites story on both Mary and Bill. Not my favorite website but I guess if you are looking for debunkers from the religious end of things it is a good read.

The account by Bill and Mary are true. I know them both, they were not fabricating anything. Nor are they doing it for money.

Their stories have been verified by other people also.

I would suggest you take what they are saying very seriously. It is the same warnings given in the bible. If you want to be saved, you need to follow Jesus Christ. Don’t reject Him.

i read weise a long time ago + will have to look over that again. am currently reading baxter + almost done. now (first) off one has to be able to cast aside what may at times appear to be ‘fundamentalist enthusiasm’ in both works. i myself was interested in the architecture of hell + their experiences – moreover how it compared to some NDEs i had read about as well as apocryphal, pseudepigrapha + non-canonical books of the bible + co. there are some interesting consistencies indeed; however i find baxter’s account to lack clarity + description. her explanation of things leaves a lot to be desired + understood (e.g. slinkys + cyclones). even as a visual person it wasnt coming together properly. also the narrative seems rather light as far as description of entities, elements, etc + there seems to be a recurrent bandying of the same phrases + expressions. i expected an author who had undergone such ‘shock’ to be able to vividly recount details + tie ends together. a last thing that bothers me is that the message seems to run counter to some of the things i have learned + im not quite sure i understand why its the end of the line for some amongst other questions.

Yes they are absolutely frauds. Their stories arent consistent in the least with each other. Also everyone who has had a NDE have huge inconsistencies in their accounts which suggest none is telling the truth. There might be an afterlife but none of the people of NDE have truly experienced it and come back to tell (except maybe the reincarnated). A few of them may think they have. Mary K Baxter and Wiese though are complete frauds and as for those saying they arent doing it for money, BS. Their books have made them a ton of money and brought them into a whole other life and it is reported they ask for money grants for everytime they speak in church.

Yes I have read both of these books. The Baxter book many years ago quite by accident…. and then came across Weise’s book in these last couple of years when I , myself, decided to do my own personal investigation on those who had personal accounts of either heaven or hell. Although Baxter’s account is much broader in the different parts of hell… Weise’s account holds much similarity to many other experiences that I have investigated. I have personally known one medical doctor that not only was given his life back after his brains were smashed against concrete, but he both visited heaven and hell with the instruction from God to tell who would listen there are such places. His account of hell, although not as in depth as these other people, still was rather daunting in nature. After researching many many accounts, the legitimate ones tend to have similarities even though they may be from different perspectives. I believe they both are legitimate compared to these other experiences i have come across.