About The Giving Pledge (www.givingpledge.org), when are they actually going to donate the money?

Do you feel like they scammed you?

When they die, obviously.

My understanding is that there is not a specific date or plan as to their donations. I believe that the pledge is to focus their priorities on giving over the span of their life (and at the time of their death, if they choose) to causes that they believe are deserving. Which, anyone that has ‘signed’ the pledge is probably someone who is already doing so, but by giving it a name (The Giving Pledge) and drawing media attention to it, they are to some degree ‘challenging’ others and drawing public attention to their actions and the actions (or lack of action) of others with wealth.

These people already give billions. Warren Buffet, David Rockefeller, the Gates and Ted Turner are known for their incredible philanthropy.

@SeventhSense it’s not that incredible. It doesn’t make a dent to their quality of life. The average person giving a few bucks a month is probably giving a larger percentage of what many are giving from their gigantic fortunes. They could give so much more. This is looking a bit silly and distracting. I would love to see a great generosity NOW. But that would seriously mess up the power structures. I doubt they’ll be that philantropic. It’s sad.

@rexpresso
It’s easy to be a critic when you have nothing. When’s the last time you pledged half your income? Do you really think it’s easier to pledge 500 million when you have a billion then 25,000 when you have 50,000? If you can’t do it on the smaller scale you likely wouldn’t do it on the larger scale. Consider also that maybe as a result of their intelligence they are best suited to be in the situation they are in. For years Bill Gates resisted attempts to give millions to charities because he wanted to make a significant impact. Everyone poo pood this and said he was just stingy. Today he oversees what is perhaps the largest philanthropic organization in the world which donates billions and saves countless lives in many nations.
It doesn’t make a dent to their quality of life.
And why shouldn’t they have an exceptional quality of life if they have offered many times over their worth to society at large?
But consider that their giving benefits millions. Remember that next time you visit a museum, school, institution or organization which owes their very existence to such as these.

@SeventhSense, I understand what you are saying, absolutely, but I put my attitude where my mouth is, too. Let me say that in my toughest times I have gone without eating so that someone else could eat, I have given all my money away to someone who needed it urgently in a time when I wasn’t sure how soon I’d have money again. I am like that with money and resources in general, as long as I believe in the cause, because I know I will have more and I’m not afraid to let it go. I like the concept of being a river, not a dam. And these guys are hoarding too much money for too long. As for what the Melinda & Gates foundation does, for example, again, I say it’s their obligation, everybody would hate them if they didn’t do it anyway, so what, hated if they don’t do it and loved if they do it? I’ll let myself like them, but not love them in that sense of thinking they are the last fresh coca-cola in the desert. When I talk about their quality of life, well, exactly! They already have the top quality of life. It’s not giving more that will dent on it. They will always have enough! Anyway. Their attribution of funds could make much better effects, I believe, namely in terms of empowerment… you know, giving the fishing rod instead of the fish. To be fair, they do it to a certain degree, of course. But they could do so much more! And with the world as it is (which I will say that actually I believe we live in the best of times, although we’re far from utopia) the needs are so pressing, that the fact that they haven’t realized that they must act now is what bugs me the most. Wrapping it up, I think GivingPledge is amazing as a concept, and I hope they really go through with it in big ways. And, honestly, I feel that they will :)

@SeventhSense Do you really think it’s easier to pledge 500 million when you have a billion then 25,000 when you have 50,000?

Are you fucking serious?

Of course it is easier! Expecially if you take in account your personal income and not your company’s. What lifestyle actually needs all that money?

I could make a more than decent living with 5000 euros a month, and i mean having pretty much anything i want plus square meals fast internet and paying for my house, assuming i’m not the kind of twat that wants everything immediately, and you honestly ask me if it is easier to donate half your income when you still end up with enough money to buy a house paying in cash or when you end up with barely enough money to buy a sports car?

Yes both the cases end up with half the money they started with, but pardon me if i think that 500.000.000 dollars are more than enough for a single family to live with. Expecially a family that doesn’t have twelve children, all four grandparents and the whole country of Zimbabwe to maintain.

Sure, the Gates help people, they help many people, but their egoism still shows when the whole philantropy thing gets shot in the kneecaps well before it could significatively impact their lifestyle.

They can donate as much as they want but i still won’t see it as a sacrifice worth acknowledging until they actually stop having so much money they could use ten dollar bills as toilet paper in every tiolet of their three storey mansion. Mainly because before that there is no fucking sacrifice to be seen in a ten kilometer radius. (i do not know if the gates own a three storey mansion, it is just a hyperbole)

Sure, they could just say “Fuck them” as many american republicans do, right before lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills while sitting in their armcharis fashioned out of human flesh, and the fact that they don’t do so elevates them somewhat, but i still hardly feel grateful for their actions, both because of what i said above and because frankly, their actions don’t impact me, so why the fuck should i be grateful?

And i expecially won’t see the gates as philantropes until they actually decide to take windows off the market and stop plagueing us with an operative system that, god knows why, has become so endemic despite it being apparently coded by a bunch of chimps with down syndrome.

@Thammuz aha thanks for coming up in my defense, I agree with nearly everything you say and what I don’t agree with isn’t that much relevant anyway.

Hey check this article… about the Gates Foundation. It’s about how they could really do so much more, but they fear for their f*ckin’ PR.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008088717_gatescritics03m.html

Let me know what you think…

@rexpresso
you know, giving the fishing rod instead of the fish.
Just take a look at the Gates Foundation and their approach to giving and you will see they have a global health program, a global development program, they help schools, businesses and offer grants and jobs. This is hardly a band aid approach. In regards to the article by the Seattle times I would simply say that the basis of giving itself is constantly under public scrutiny like you so aptly demonstrate. So unbelievably it’s necessary that they have a Public Relations policy to assure they do the most good. And even if they do not, it’s their money for God’s sake.

It’s absolutely amazing that anyone could have the unmitigated gall to cast aspersions upon anyone who donates millions or billions of dollars. Furthermore equally amazing when they use ones own “generosity” as a basis for that judgment. There are other ways to be stingy besides money. For example: stingy with ones admiration, compassion, forgiveness and acceptance.
And finally the real issue is jealousy.
Read up on some of these successful men and women and read your own link itself and you will see that there is much to be admired as well as despised among these men and women. You do not arrive at such a place by being ordinary nor without offending a few people. And if they took into account the opinions of everyone they wouldn’t have anything nor anything to offer to anyone.

@SeventhSense I like what you say too.

@Thammuz
Well one thinks that there is a huge difference but until one has amassed that fortune it’s hard to imagine. And true it’s not the same quality of life issue but it is the same emotional decision. It’s all relative and the level of stress and mental strain at that level is very great. Consider also the sacrifice of a child who is asked to give 2 of his 4 toys never to see them again. Someone may also laugh and say that’s very different from the sacrifice of half of an adult’s bank account but to the child it’s half his world. It’s all relative.

Also, holding another’s generosity and accountability to ones own standard seems to me like the least of sacrifices. Nothing is given in that exchange except judgment.

@rexpresso
It always helps to take a 360 degree perspective regardless of the issue or ones personal experience.

@SeventhSense Well one thinks that there is a huge difference but until one has amassed that fortune it’s hard to imagine.

No it fucking isn’t. I have already sorted out how much monthly money i would need to have a lifestyle that i would consider more than kinglike. My family earns less than that and the only times we need to hold the spending back is when we have to undergo some bigger expense, like buying a new car or fixing something in our summer home.

If you add money to this paradigm you reach a point where you can ignore the holding back part and simply pay for whatever you need without touching your lifestyle. More money after that point is just pointless, as it doesn’t affect your life in any believable way other than allowing you to use it as toilet paper.

Don’t get me wrong i’m not saying one shouldn’t put his needs first, if the gates’ summer home had a leaky roof i wouldn’t say shit if they held back 10000 dollars from their charity work to fix it.

What i’m saying is that when the best lifestyle i can imagine takes, as a maintainment cost, without counting things like buying your 15th car, 10% of their income, tops, if you want to have enough spare change lying around to drown the occasional hobo, giving 50% and expecting us to clap at how generous they are seems a bit ridiculous.

Consider also the sacrifice of a child who is asked to give 2 of his 4 toys never to see them again. Someone may also laugh and say that’s very different from the sacrifice of half of an adult’s bank account but to the child it’s half his world. It’s all relative.

Wow. Really, wow. You’re actually comparing a child’s affection towards his toys to an adult giving away some of his more than abundant disposable income. Furthermore in the case of the adult it would be disposable income laying around gathering dust, because there is no way you can spend all that money in something reasonable, and he’d see the exact same amount being shoveled in his bank account the following month while the kid you described would, and i quote, “never see them again”.

You’ve got to be shitting me at this point.

You don’t form an affection towards money, expecially when you have enough to pay off the debts of an entire third world nation. And if you do form an affection towards numbers in your bank account then you have bigger problems than not giving enough.

Also, holding another’s generosity and accountability to ones own standard seems to me like the least of sacrifices.

I never passed my action as filanthropic or as a sacrifice.

If i had to sacrifice something to write my opinion about bill gates’ charity work i wouldn’t do it, because there is nothing more futile than attacking someone who has built his life around an OS that everyone competent in the field hates with the flaming intensity of a thousand suns.

He’s used to insults and judgement by now.

Nothing is given in that exchange except judgment.

For the record, you’re doing the same, only you’re dong it positively.

and on a finishing note: There are other ways to be stingy besides money. For example: stingy with ones admiration, compassion, forgiveness and acceptance.

Absolutely, i for one am really stingy about admiration and respect, one has to do much more than give away something that impairs his lifestyle in the same measure as me giving fifty cents to a hobo on the street does to earn mine.

The only difference is that while me respecting and admiring the whole fucking world wouldn’t change shit in the quality of the world’s life, them giving 80% instead of 50% would change a lot.

As for forgiveness, i forgive people who are willing to stop indulging in the same mistake, bill gates hasn’t retired windows from the market yet, so i haven’t forgiven him.

By the way, for someone with Che Guevara in their avatar you sure spend a lot of time defending the rich…

@Thammuz
The Che Guevarra is a joke not unlike the spoiled suburban brats who use him as a t shirt icon.
You’re just jealous. Just step aside and let those who contribute value to society do their work.

@SeventhSense You’re just jealous.

Jealous of what, exactly? i might be envious of his shitloads of money, and i don’t hide it, i’d love to have more money than i do, but i would never need to have as much as he does.

If i was as rich as he is and i ever actually wanted to give to charity i’d really give all i could give to charity, if anything for consistence.

The “i give 50% regardless of the fact that i could give much more” mentality seriously undermines the credibility of his intentions, moving the probability from “i genuinely want to help those less fortunate” to “i want good PR in order not to be reminded only for the unfailingly shitty OS i put on the market”

Just step aside and let those who contribute value to society do their work.

Every fucking living human being contributes to society, if anything because one makes money go around by buying shit, and furthermore i doubt my criticism of the Gates’ incoherent behaviour will ever stop them from acting that way, as windows’ continued existence seems to imply.

And before you get the wrong idea, i don’t own a Che Guevara t-shirt and personally i consider him on the same level of each and every leader of a revolution without any special treatement due to his ideology. He’s a guy who slaughtered a shitload of people for his particular set of ideals and ended up with good PR because he incidentally won, and nothing else.

Why don’t we all start a corporation to change the world on a for-profit basis?

@rexpresso i hope that was sarcasm. There’s no profit in giving money to people who don’t have it, and ninja loans already fucked up the economy once.

Ok envious.

I support the Grameen Bank fully and I also believe such a system should be available for countries other than third-world countries. Where I live one needs a ridiculous amount of guarantees and still pays interest on microcredit. Why they call it microcredit is beyond me.

@rexpresso because macrocredit is the kind companies use.

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@Thammuz who says I’m a company?

@rexpresso They call it microcredit because personal credits are comparatively small to those of companies, because higher credits need higher collaterals.