Social Question

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Death by bullying?

Asked by Hypocrisy_Central (26879points) September 5th, 2010

Here is a semi-hypothetical question, if a tween girl who is an immigrant is picked on and bullied because she is not familiar with American social norms etc. The bullying usually happens to and from school away from the control of the school, and the incidents that happen on school grounds are hard to substantiate due to the language barrier and being out numbered. When is morphs into cyber bullying and the girl bullied commits suicide was there any crime or wrong doing done? Could the girl’s parents sue, and if so, who? Do they just have to suck it up that their daughter could not withstand the onslaught of the “mean girls”?

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12 Answers

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

I’m pretty certain that they can press charges. This is (unfortunately) becoming an all too common story.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

The only official crime here is suicide.

But ethically, well…

muppetish's avatar

I’m pretty sure there was a case similar to this, but I don’t remember how recent it was. There was a little girl who moved to the United States from Ireland, I think (here it is; I found it). I haven’t read the entire story, but I don’t think, at the time, they could charge anyone for bullying (children were charged for various other crimes against the girl.) Since then, Massachusetts has passed legislation to specifically target bullying.

I think other states need to look at this case as an example. When bullying reaches that degree, it’s horrifying. It must be a nightmare to draw up that kind of legislation (how would you press charges? who is responsible? how to police this?) but I think it’s wholly necessary.

I can’t imagine what her parents went through.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

It was Phoebe Prince, not Princel.. that may be why you’re having a hard time finding it. I just remembered the name myself.

http://hitsusa.com/blog/1645/teens-charged-in-bullied-girl-s-suicide/

muppetish's avatar

@TheOnlyNeffie Typo on my part. Thanks for notifying me so I could correct my post before the edit button disappeared!

Frenchfry's avatar

This kind of thing makes a parent thinks twice about home schooling.

nebule's avatar

Yes, the bullies should be held accountable for the death…it is only a case like this that might make people think twice about bullying other children…and adults for that matter

iamthemob's avatar

From @muppetish: “When bullying reaches that degree, it’s horrifying. It must be a nightmare to draw up that kind of legislation (how would you press charges? who is responsible? how to police this?) but I think it’s wholly necessary”

The problem is far, far worse than I think is being stated. This is, and has been, an epidemic – especially now with the “sexting” phenomenon. Girl bullying is generally so much more insidious than that of boys because it’s often psychological. Cyberspace offers both a new opportunity to psychologically attack girls, as well as tearing down the walls of any perceived safe space or time – or responsibility. It is much easier to attack someone online than it is face-to-face because you can’t see the reaction (remember Milligram’s experiment, and consider instances of road rage where intent is assumed in another driver because one can’t see their face). This is clear even here and on other sites – people will often be more snarky, rude or even mean even though they know it could be taken personally by another member AND it is taken place in a public space than I think we all believe they would be if that conversation were taking place in a bar.

Further, for the victims, the internet is often a place where they can socialize and escape from ridicule because of the detachment from the actual physical appearance, or the sound of their voice, and where they can be accepted for who they “are.” It is ALL the more devastating when such a sacrosanct space is invaded, and by people who have been emotionally detached from their sense of responsibility.

The sexting issue brings up the issue of boys using girls to up their popularity, girls feeling that they need to “give” boys something to keep them happy or they will be dumped and popularity, boys being able to use “sexts” to blackmail girls into doing degrading sexual things, and girls ostracizing each other to improve their status and protect their sense of “virtue” oddly, by showing how one girl is a “slut.”

Because of this, and because there are whoa more instances than this one discussed, and because it is often going to be against “weak” kids in our society who don’t feel like they have anyone and so won’t talk about it until it’s too late leaving no one with a real understanding of what happened (either through suicide, running away, or being self destructive in another way) we can’t possibly legislate it…there are too many variables, too many people who won’t want to go through formal proceedings, and too many formal proof problems. What we need is a form of mediation and education for the kids themselves so that they can begin to feel safe about their own agency generally and don’t have to subject to social pressures (well, as often or as extremely). If we don’t start getting input from the bullies (who here, are often as afraid themselves – as long as it’s happening to someone else at least it’s not them), from boys and girls, legislation and prosecution can probably only hurt as accusers go through the system, are reabused by it, and then spit back out without a win and destroyed by their classmates or with a win and ostracized because they should have just taken it.

nebule's avatar

@iamthemob I salute your answer but I would add that whilst we have to understand that bullies are often victims themselves, it in no way justifies their actions and the cause and the effect of their behaviour both need dealing with. I don’t quite see how it is different for any other crime in the sense that there are many variables and factors that go into drug abuse, stealing, vandalism, rape…the list is endless…all crimes and criminals have ‘reasons’ why they committed the act but it doesn’t mean they should go unpunished. Furthermore, I must add that the punishment has to be appropriate, respect human rights and rehabilitate through counselling…but that’s a whole other thread!

Seaofclouds's avatar

Depending on the level of cyber bullying, it can actually result in criminal charges. Physical bullying can as well depending on the situation. Here is a story about kids being indicted after a girl committed suicide because of what was done to her. Her story is very extreme, but it’s an example (It’s the same girl some others have mentioned.) Here’s another story where the parents filed a law suit after their child committed suicide after a bully said “Why don’t you go home and shoot yourself, no one will miss you”. The bully said that publicly in class at school. If you google bullycide there are a lot of stories about children and teens committing suicide after being bullying.

I think it should definitely result in criminal charges and I hope legislations catches up to the times in this one.

My son’s school has a zero tolerance bully policy and they seem to be really good about keeping an eye on the kids. He’s only in 3rd grade though and I could see it getting harder to keep track of as children get older.

iamthemob's avatar

whilst we have to understand that bullies are often victims themselves, it in no way justifies their actions and the cause and the effect of their behaviour both need dealing with.

I agree with you, and there’s nothing to say that punishment shouldn’t factor in. It’s just (1) the legal sphere is probably not the best one, and (2) punishment is not necessarily the best way to stop it from happening again.

When someone gets punished for such a thing, it’s generally just never enough to make the direct victims feel better. Also, it’s saying “We find this unacceptable and YOU did it,” instead of “We thought we found this unacceptable and we all do it.” When some one gets blamed and punished, it’s easy to locate the harm right there, and people feel once the person’s gone, the problem goes with them.

It also can reduce reporting, especially in high school. Young kids are criticized when they tattle on other kids, by both kids and adults. High schoolers will socially ostracize each other without adult involvement. So a bullied kid won’t want to make it worse by telling, and people who aren’t happy about it but know won’t do it for fear of social reprisal, and the people who may be participating but see it going to another level won’t want to get their friends in trouble or perhaps themselves.

Thanks for bringing this up, and I think we’re working toward the same thing…I just always question the effectiveness of punishment when it’s dealing with different subsets of culture. Because high schoolers kind of have their own rules, observance of the adult rules can be so harmful to them (they might think or feel). I see these situations and wonder if something along the lines of the South African truth and reconciliation project is not a better framework – where something went wrong and all involved were invited to come and tell their story and admit any and all wrongdoing within a certain period of time. This both gave them a record of the truthful and honest reasons why it happened, and brought all of the wrongdoers out. If you didn’t tell the whole truth or didn’t speak in time, you were thereafter punished harshly. Punishment, unfortunately, often silences rather than promotes dialogue.

talljasperman's avatar

the laws are slowly catching up… so soon it will be a crime…its being debated on news channels like CNN….I would love to charge some bullies with attempted murder sometimes…

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