Did the terrorist win?

This is not nor can ever be a sum zero game.

Really? Several hundred Criminals in waziristan may beg to differ.

How many have we killed so far?? Anybody know??

You wrecked your economy all on your own.
You divided your nation all on your own.
Your military budget already was overblown long before 911.
The bickering about the 1st and 14th is pure politics, already common long before 911.

The terrorists did not even have to do anything.

@thekoukoureport, I believe the question related to the “war” between terrorists and the United States, and in that particular struggle, I see no way for either “side” to win with the current eye-for-eye strategy.

@Austinlad The terrorist group al qeada has grown around the world, they are winning because they are growing and they have been legitimized by our actions. when we made this a “war” rather than a special forces mop up we “shocked and awed” them into a legitimate organization, rather than a bunch of punks. The other side wins when they are able to convert another human into a walking bomb. They are also winning by turning this into a religious war which we are falling for hook line and sinker.

@ragingloli politics aside without 9/11 these discussions hold no weight. People would not be attacking an entire faith without the actions of 20 criminals.

There are no winners in this, only losers on all sides. Until we learn to live and co-exist peacefully with one another, there will only be losers.’

Remember, the terrorists were not always terrorists. We made them into terrorists by killing their women and children.

Yes, that’s right. The US caused those terrorists to become killers.

Read what this young muslim wrote to a friend,

“There is big difference between between Islam and what do some people talked and tried to make bad for Islam..May they’re not real Muslims or they suffer from USA ..Remember if you lose all ur family and you beloved everyday In Iraqm Afghanistan….....everyday people they cry and never stop their tears cuz what Usa made and destrory there to steal Petrol…The Muslims are not terrorists as they try to post in all memories all time and in every 11/09…please think about all who lose their beloved everyday and they still see the ennemy stay at home and smile and last time some usa soldiers took the buddies die and wanna bring it at home as great memories…who is great at war still now? really I hate to talk about this with some great friends as you but we must share both…Peace always powreful when so;e great souls understand we’ll never pass 100 years in this life ..som we must understand each other cuz in the war nobody will stay wise..God bless you Sandy and all friends non Muslims here :)”

The previous administration saw 9–11 not as a tragedy but as an opportunity. They got to bomb a non- christian country, that was going to be bombed even if 9–11 didn’t happen. After all, there is an oil pipeline to protect. Then we got to destroy another country because it stopped being a CIA puppet and all fascist governments need enemies. Then got to build a draconian homeland security department with hand picked administrators, free from union interference. They also were able to perpetuate the Patriot Act to insure that their renditions, warrantless searches and continual monitoring of the worlds citizens.

Of course they got into a little trouble because people notice that the country’s wealth was being transferred to the top 2% so they threw the election so that they could blame everything on the democrats. No one on the far right really cared for McClain anyway. Karl Rove is nothing if no a masterful politician.

The icing on the cake was that the opposition candidate was of mixed race, a perfect storm for a final neocon take over that is likely to last until the end of this century. Somewhere in the future, there will be a move to end term limits for the president so that we can have a true fascist state.

The 9–11 murders were not the ruin of our country, just the trigger on the gun to end democracy in this country.

Al Qaeda could have easily been destroyed after 9/11. But there would have been no Afghan occupation or Iraq war if we had done that. So @Ron_C is right about why we responded as we did.

To the point of your question, al Qaeda is far weaker today than they were prior to 9/11. US Intelligence estimates they number 300 fighters. Egyptian Intelligence (who have a serious stake in tracking them to prevent the overthrow of their own government) say its more like 200. Al Qaeda is just as much at war with greater Isalm as they are with the West. They have killed more Muslims than Americans, after all.

But the same idiots who decided not to wipe out al Qaeda when they could instead be used to gin up $3 trillion worth of unfunded war are now determined to politicize terror in their quest for eternal ideological rule of the USA. And their efforts are greatly magnifying the reach of those 2–300 isolated extremists. This is an IQ test for the American electorate. If we are stupid enough, al Qaeda eventually wins without needing to fire another shot.

@ETpro you’re right about: “is an IQ test for the American electorate” and from listening to the polls and to individuals that think that Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin are political visionaries, America will fail the test. I am preparing for 2 more years of republican obstructionism and 4 years of a new neocon government. I feel sorry for my children and grandchildren. They will be growing up in a foreign country, the Homeland of America.

@Ron_C It’s things like this that make me glad I chose not to reproduce. I figured it was overdue though; how long had it been since a Christian warlord invaded the Middle East?

@jerv everytime discussions of this time crop up, I remember how much I hate Bush and Cheney for getting us into this position.

@Ron_C I’m a bit more sanguine than that. A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. Poll conducted September 8th found this.
Barack Obama: 53% Favorable, 45% Unfavorable 0% never heard of, 1% no opinion
Michelle Obama: 62% favorable, 25% unfavorable, 1% never heard of, 11% no opinion
Sarah Palin: 38% favorable, 52% unfavorable, 4% never heard of, 5% no opinion.
See full results, including other political leaders here.

@ETpro that’s encouraging but you didn’t add the less than 20% approval for congress; democratic or republican.

When that happens, the opposition party takes over. My guess that it will be very close and with the addition of some true tea party crazies. We have at least, a sex year downhill trend. Maybe some of the old idiots will die off by then and some intelligent, un-purchased kids will take over both parties and really work for the country instead of corporate interests, by then I will be way over the hill.

First of all, ‘Terrorism’ has been around for a long time. It didn’t start on 9/11. Hell John Brown used it in the 1850’s to influence the national debate about slavery. It was popularized as an international tool, at the ‘72 Olympics where the Israeli athletes were slaughtered. Since then Terror attacks have been seemingly endless and occurred in most countries. It hasn’t singled out a specific religion or nation but has been perpetrated against Muslims, Jews, Christians, and Hindus. Terrorism has been used from Saudi Arabia to India, From Japan to Russia, and from Europe to America. It is not used by a single group either. Al Qaeda is merely the latest manifestation and the name is now more generic than a real organization. The war in Afghanistan was as much about eliminating the breeding ground as it was about eliminating the infestation.

So who are we talking about when we say they’ve won. All terrorists, Al Qaeda, Hamas? There are 41 terrorist organizations I know of. Did they all win? Did any of them win? If we get Osama, is that the ‘Brass Ring’? Terrorism dies with him? A bit ridiculous, don’t ya think?

Our actions to combat terrorism are merely taking the new state of the world realistically. When I was a kid, Halloween was a big deal. Kids would go out by themselves, door to door getting candy. No one even thought there was a problem or a danger. Then razor blades and poison began showing up in the candy. Now no kid goes alone and only for a very short time. The holiday has been marginalized. Does that mean the perverts and psychopaths won. Or does it merely mean we have to take into account the new reality.

Terrorism is neither a Democratic nor Republican thing. We may not totally agree on the best tactics to combat it but ignore it at you own peril.

@jaxk Actually you holloween anology is not apt because most of those claims where unfounded. Secound of all, all of the acts that you mentioned where not answered with a war. They where settled like we should have done it, With special forces going in and just wiping out the area. But since we didn’t we have not only strenthened the enemy we have embolden them to continue to try. There are two things that have kept this country safe, The lack of availability in this country to get explosives and the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Everything else is bullshit(forgive the language I have been drinking).

@thekoukoureport

Obviously enough were real to change the event permanently. No one is willing to risk it.

As for the terror attacks your right in that they were not settled with war nor did they stop. They continued to escalate throughout the subsequent decades. The response did not create terrorists they were already created. Otherwise we would not have had 9/11, the bombing of the Cole, Pan Am flight 103, Numerous embassy bombings, Khobar Towers bombing, hell the first World Trade center bombing. The list is long and shows at lease one attack every year for the past few decades culminating in the 9/11 attack. I suppose however, we could have bombed an aspirin factory in the middle of the night as we had done in the past. The idea that we should just suck it up and not retaliate hasn’t worked. The attacks just got worse and more frequent.

We didn’t create terrorists, they were already out there and attacking anyone and anything they didn’t like. They didn’t come after us because they hated our way of life, they came after everybody because they hated everything. Blaming America for terrorists does not explain the attacks in Russia, Europe, India, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Indonesia, and on and on. Keep drinking, maybe you’ll be more convincing that way. Or better still, maybe I should start drinking. You’ll be even more convincing that way.

I never said that America created terrorists. Is this subject hard for you or what, read the question again. Intersting how you point out the weakness of my argument(that I have been drinking) despite the fact I made mention of it already. Don’t take it personal Jaxk you can be the smart one I promise I still love ya. I look forward to many stimulating debates with your reight wing leanings, But that doesn’t mean you have to attack me personally and if you feel the need thats okay I’II understand. I would be more than happy to be the scapegoat…. wait a minute someone already tried that, to not much success I might add. (Jesus)

and further more I would like to add ;
thpht! (thats a rasberry, with a smile of course)

@thekoukoureport
Of course I made fun of you. Hell, you teed it up for me. You’d be disappointed if I didn’t :>

And no, the subject is not hard for me. Nor is the banter.

hey Jaxk let me reiterate thpht!

@Jaxk GA.

But you brought out a rare grammar Nazi response in one point you made. I realize we are all typing faster than we think when we answer, but just in case a well educated guy like you doesn’t know it, you’re misusing your for you’re here: “As for the terror attacks your right…”

It’s getting to be such a comon mistake we may have to fight it by calling it out. If your, you’re, there, their, they’re and others all get crunched into the simplest spelling, it will become nearly impossible to figure out from context which is meant in some sentences.

@ETpro There is a reason I hate the auto-correct feature on the virtual keyboards of certain mobile devices. I have had a few words entire replaced by something not even close without my consent. At least my PC just underlines it and makes me correct manually.

@ETpro
I come from a generation where typing was not a skill everyone possessed. It turns out that I’ve got a typing disorder. I sought medical help but they tell me at my age, there is little they can do. They can treat the symptoms with things like Spellcheck but there is no cure for the disease.

@Jaxk I’m guessing you’re a youngster in my eyes. I came through school when they were experimenting with sight reading in lieu of phonetics. Later they realized that you do learn to reed and right faster that way, but it takes a spell to learn good spelin without phonetics. I’m an absolute ninny without the built in spell checker in my browser.

Lucky me. The only issue I have is typing too fast and making mistakes like “teh”, “remeber”, and other signs that my brain moves faster and more accurately than my fingers. I rely on spell-check almost exclusively to catch those typos. Granted, it took me many years to learn to type as quickly as I do; I was a “hunt and peck” guy from age 6 to 26 and only really learned to type in the last decade.