Even if among friends, how does joking about anything gay affect those directly or indirectly involved in the joke?

It really depends on the intent behind the joke – mean spirited or bigoted comments are usually very recognizable. Otherwise, I’m just a guilty as the next person for joking about stereotypes. It’s definitely possible to go overboard on the whole whole “PC” thing. We should all be able to laugh at ourselves, right? If I have a problem with something a friend or associate says, I’ll tell them. If they have a problem with that, or continue in the same vein, then that’s not someone that I’m going to hang out with.

Sadly, insensitive humor/remarks don’t have a place in today’s society…that’s just my opinion.

In my circle of trusted friends, we use self-deprecating humor all the time or laugh about how others speak of us or call each other, sarcastically, all kinds of things – it provides power, I believe, and destroys hatred. However, when we interact with others not of our circle, it’s not appropriate – besides, I can usually tell if people are joking with or at queer people – they don’t hide their cliches beliefs well.

Everybody has something about them that is different from others. I was just watching Lewis Blacks Root of all Evil and they all slam each other for their ethnicity, weight,skin color, propensities, religion and anything else. Is it really that big of a deal?
To me it seemed more like a nod. Acknowledgement and acceptance of the other person. I associate with lots of others who are different then me. I know lots of gay guys and we joke with each other sometimes, either about me and others being straight or them liking the pole. I know black people that say things like “It’s ‘cause I’m black, isn’t it?” I know Phillippino’s who make “pale” remarks, or complain that my acccent is too thick. They’re joking really about their own accents.
Now, maybe the military community is different because it forces together people of widely differing backgrounds and walks of life. We are then left to find a way to work out our diferences and work together as a team. I really don’t remember any people that I ever worked with who had an issue about varying differences being joked about. It was part of the way we learned and accepted each other. And though we certainly joked about each other’s different POV’s aout things, we never held them against each other. If we had differences, they were more personal that general. Diversity has to be more than having differences. They must be acknowledged, examined, understood and accepted. Pretending that the differences do not exist is, to me, dishonest and hypocritical. Kind of like The Empeors New Clothes.
There was ONE very racist girl from East Texas once. We don’t tolerate racism. I also stood duty several times with a black guy who was racist. After about three duties together he loosened up and we had several interesting talks. He learned to see differently on his own, which I feel is always best. But it came about through dialogue and a desire for understanding. Had I taken the stance of offended innocent the dialogue would not have happene.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – How does it provide power?

I’m thinking about this question because of a recent situation involving a straight friend of mine who was hurt when I made a joke about her lifestyle. After thinking about her reaction, it made me think about how humor affects people – how it can be disrespectful and minimizing. I thought about the many times she has randomly used lesbian humor. It made me wonder if my friend thinks about my lifestyle as a joke, not something to be taken seriously or on the same level as our straight peers. Blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – You’re married, a woman with a man, and even though you identify as queer, to the outside world, you can pass as “normal” (I use that word cautiously). In other words, you’ve nothing major to prove or to defend – so joking wouldn’t be a big deal among your friends. But, to me, as a lesbian in a same-sex relationship, I feel I have to prove and defend the normalcy of my life among my friends who knew back in the day when I was otherwise. To me, joking doesn’t feel empowering, but minimizing – even though it’s funny and I laugh along with them.

@prolificus It provides power because it dissipates our anger and frustration. I understand that you believe that I can pass and sometimes I can but because of how vocal I am about my identities and because of the work I do in terms of my activism, there aren’t many people who aren’t aware that we’re a queer couple (not a married man and woman, since I don’t identify as a woman and he dosn’t identify, period). I have everything major to prove and defend but that’s not what my focus is (the invalidation and invisibility I experience because I’m perceived as straight are palpable enough but I keep my focus elsewhere). I have nothing to defend because all my friends are queer (I might have one straight friend) and understand me. If you don’t feel like the joke helps, don’t joke and ask others not to joke. We all have different triggers and thresholds.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – “We all have different triggers and thresholds.” I agree. I like to joke around just like everyone else around me. I’ve been known to use gay humor around gay people I know. I haven’t really decided yet what’s appropriate or not appropriate, as much of it is decided in the moment. I’m just wondering. The recent situation with my friend has prompted me to think about it.

I wouldn’t want to ask my friend not to joke about it, because then it would make things serious and awkward, as if it’s not okay to talk about things period. I think, on one hand, joking conveys a level of acceptance and integration. Blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

I’m not sure, if in my case, I should let the humor roll off my back, and focus on things that make me feel valued, or if I should address things as they happen. I’m not sure if the joking is the issue, or my not feeling fully valued. (And as I write my answer, I think I know which one it is.)

@prolificus I think your friends can recognize the fact that everyone’s on different trajectories and that which made us squirm a year ago doesn’t anymore or vice versa. If something really makes you feel devalued, it’s not a big deal to mention it.

Generally, jokes I make about homosexuality – or race, religion & other sensitive things like that – are more about expressing absurd stereotypes and generalisations that people actually believe in, but in a ridiculous, facetious manner, to make fun of the idiots who seriously have those views.

The most recent example, we were discussing whether or not a friend of ours was morally a bad person or not (he is a complex person with unusual extremes of behaviour), and I said, faux-serious, “Well, you know, homosexuality is a sin and a crime against God.” It’s not a great joke, but it was mildly humorous, because some people actually believe that shit, and in some of the more barbaric and backwards nations on Earth, such arguments are seriously discussed and in some areas prevail.

I think it depends a lot on where you are, in the world. I wouldn’t make anywhere near as many jokes about racism or homophobia in some places in the USA, because they are serious, life-affecting issues there. In the UK, racists and homophobes are just generally regarded as one long-running joke.

Amongst young people, at least, if there is a seriously gay-hating person in the room, no-one is going to speak to them and everyone will pretty much just label them an idiot for their views; a real racist will probably be called a pathetic cunt to his face until he leaves.

And they become the objects of ridicule.

I’m not a big joke teller. I don’t mind when someone makes fun of me for being heterosexual or white or an egghead or geek or whatever. It bothers me when someone makes a joke at the expense of a group that has experienced discrimination and I think they would be offended by the joke. Sometimes when this happens, I’ll tell the person it makes me uncomfortable.

I think humour is often just a smokescreen for people’s inability to understand the person’s situation properly. I fail to see how making fun of the attributes of another can be considered and funny. But then I have been bullied all my life so maybe I’m a little too sensitive?

I’ve found in east texas people don’t joke as much as they whisper about gay people . At least, that’s true with how I notice the women act. The men talk and joke like they really look down on gays. Like they could get violent with them. But in the schools, they are teaching respect and tolerance and that is so important.

@Aster Wow, I’ve never been to Texas but it sounds like a pretty ignorant & retarded society. Though at least they are facing the right way, on the long road towards civilization.

@The_Idler It certainly has backward and ignorant elements to it. I lived here in 1972 and in 1985 and now after ten yrs I’m back and it’s still the same.
But really; its not as if slamming gays is something super strange or only for Texans. Gays are over represented on fluther , I think, and it makes being here on fluther so educational. I hope over represented was the correct phrase?

@The_Idler That is a good description for the way we do it among my aquaintences. We point out the ridiculous. Very well put.

@Aster “But really; its not as if slamming gays is something super strange or only for Texans.”

No, of course, there are many other areas of the Land of the Free, where such narrow-minded, hateful behaviour is commonplace, I hear.

It’s funny for me (and the rest of Europe and maybe Canada as well), because the very same people believe that the USA is the most free and fair nation on Earth. It’s not funny, if you’re gay and live in Texas.

Maybe gays are disproportionately represented on Fluther. I never noticed. Maybe they’re just all afraid to make their sexuality public in Texas or other places you have lived, giving you a skewed perspective…

I’ve found an unfortunate tendency in my friends to mask insecurities and prejudices with humor – often very lame humor – so that in the rare event they say something genuinely funny about gay people / stereotypes, I have trouble laughing with them because a) I’m gay and b) I recognize where these jokes are coming from. The vocalization of a gay joke often works as an opportunity, for them, to discuss more ‘seriously’ the anomalousness of homosexuality.

There was a time I thought their easy humor re homosexuality indicated their own straight-people kind of acceptance of it (what was I thinking?). But more recently they’ve revealed that they think it is a choice, or sinful, or unnatural, and that gay marriage should not be legalized because it violates Christian traditions, and so on.

And that’s fine. But in cases like theirs it’s apparent that the use of jokes is not an attempt at accepting or familiarizing homosexuality, but just a means of making it harmless, ‘defusing’ it as a relevant and important issue in their contemporary Christian lives.

I wish we didn’t have to take sexuality and civil rights so seriously – I mean I wish it weren’t an issue and people could just be accepting. I wish we could just joke about gay people without automatically invoking (however implicitly) political or religious beliefs and the dichotomies those beliefs create.

But some gay jokes are just really funny to me, and perfectly appropriate. Like that somewhat recent Family Guy episode in which Peter turns gay (via injection of the gay gene!). I thought it was handled pretty well and was entirely inoffensive, because it came from a place of understanding: it made more fun of the people who typically make fun of gays than it did of homosexuality itself (the idea that the injection of an isolated ‘gay gene’ produces the epitome of the gay stereotype in Peter was, to me, kind of clever). As if to say, ‘Look how ridiculous your stereotypes are.’

So it would nice if gay jokes were more appropriate more often. As I encounter them in my life / current environment, they’re not funny because humor isn’t their first goal; the goal is a kind of airing of grievances re gays, presented in the guise of an innocuous joke. Hopefully in the future, gay humor will get funnier, a little less tense and a little less informed by repressed prejudices.

@The_Idler Just don’t want you to think that I, who am from the NE, have anything whatsoever against gay people. I think they’re sweet and I hope you don’t take that the wrong way. I have simply never known any—yet.

I have a small group of people with whom I will use sarcastic and ironic humor that pertains to all sorts of stereotypes. I call some of my gay friends fag when they do something so stereotypically gay that it’s laughable. I make silly jokes to one of my friends whose family owns a boat that black people don’t swim.

In a way, it brings us closer together. By making light of serious issues we know that our relationships are not affected by prejudices and stereotypes, and we know that we view each other as individual people, people who can laugh at themselves.

I think too many say they are joking when there is really an air of bigotry and prejudice. That is why there are very few people who I will joke with in this manner.

I’m with @Simone_De_Beauvoir on this one. Joking amongst my gay friends can be a way of taking back power. Some jokes about gays are genuinely funny, while some are vicious and hateful. It’s not hard to tell the difference.

I am not part of a LGBT community, however, there is no reason why humor can’t be used – as long as it’s in good taste and not made offensive. Even “amongst friends and trusted folks” this humor can be applied to ANY situation whether someone is overweight, skinny, gay, etc., and you would recognize if someone was crossing the line…

“Does humor mock or diminish the legitimacy of another’s lifestyle?” NOOOOO!!! Look at Chris Farley, he used to mock himself because of his weight issues, did he diminish his own lifestyle or other fat people? not at all…

Humor has not turned homosexuality into a joke unless you are insensitive. Did Kmart close its doors when children would poke fun of other children for shopping at its stores?

Humor has not turned homosexuality into a joke unless you are insensitive.

I think this is spot on. I think humor can actually be a great way at cutting through the BS. But I also think it’s always appropriate to call someone else’s humor into question, at any time, as long as it’s done in an appropriate manner. I’ve done it here, and it could have been done in a better manner, but I don’t think anyone should be called to refrain from pointing out something said as a joke that others could take offense to.

I think holding back in general is a bad call. I say horribly offensive things at times with my close friends, and generally end it by saying something along the lines of “And that’s why we’re all going to hell” when the laughing is done. Bad taste humor can always be funny – but I would never be offended at being called out if it’s done in a way where I can clarify what I said and am not made to feel guilty about it.

Kudos, @prolificus, for making this thread continue in a respectful manner, especially when it’s on a topic that could get heated.

Perhaps i’m naive, oblivious or just plain lucky but I have never encountered this seemingly commonplace “hidden bigotry”. Generally if someone’s genuinely homophobic it appears very clear to me, typically because they’re quite outspoken about it.

When it comes to joking about people being “gay” (or black, white, fat, thin, prone to spontaneous combustion etc) I say it’s fair game and should someone express offence, be this verbally or otherwise, then just apologise and get on with your lives. It needn’t be complicated.

Everyone’s a little bit racist, IT’S TRUUEEEE.
But everyone is just about as racist as YOUUUUU.
If we all could just admit
That we are racist, a little bit,
and everyone stop being so PC~
MAYBE WE COULD LIVE IN…. HARMONYYYYYY.
Everyone’s a widdle bit lacist.

Same concept. .. Of course, I believe it depends on the person. Some homosexuals might find it funny among friends. Among strangers, they’d likely be hurt. It could be both for some as well. Rather than taking in mind “this person is gay, so I shouldn’t talk about that” take in mind who it is. I’m sure even they would appriciate that more. I mean, someone tells you “I’m tired.” and then you joke “YOUR MOM’S TIRED.” Would you say that to someone you know would laugh? Sure. Would you say that to someone who watched their mom on her death bed and went through a depression a month ago? Hell no. Or less obvious, someone who often jokes with his friends, and at times makes fun of others, vs someone who’s generally quiet and keeps to him/her self? Well? >_> As I said, depends on the person, not the fact.

@Aster nice sentiments to hear from you, thank you. I wouldn’t say there is an over representation of queer folks on fluther. I think fluther is a community that not only makes it safe to be queer, but generally treats all people equally (with its criticisms as well as its praise).

I think part of the reason it worked was that the characters allowed us to laugh at our own homophobia. “look even gay people (Will) think that someone can be ‘too gay’ (Will towards Jack)” ha ha. Which leaves me with mixed feelings. I don’t think there is such a thing as too gay.

That being said I joke around with my intimates all the time and, like others are saying, it isn’t to make fun of people but to make fun of the ignorance and disgust that generates stereotyping and intolerance. I think this works because we also spend time crying together over such sentiments.