Do you think the Mexican reporter who dressed provocatively and received catcalls from the Jets' locker room in any way invited that harassment by her clothing?

You will get plenty who’ll say yes. I will say that even if she is naked and masturbating with her microphone, there is no need to verbally harass her – our culture is entirely too lenient with men catcalling after women – not only does it make women angry but it portrays men as blubbering idiots unable to control themselves, both results not being good ones.

1. If you dress provocatively, don’t bitch if you get a response.
2. If you see a provocatively dressed woman, be a minimally worthwhile human being and keep your opinion to yourself.

I thought that myself and asked a male friend his opinion. I’ll get to his opinion in a bit. I don’t know what she was wearing at the time she was in the dressing room, but as a woman, I know not to walk on a construction site in a blouse down to my belly button and tight pants or a short tight skirt on and expect not to be whistled or yelled at. A girl in my office used to wear low cut blouses, all but nipple showing and complained that one of the older, overweight guys was looking at her cleavage. Just looking, not commenting. I asked her if she minded if Steve, a young, good looking guy was looking. She said no. I told her if she dressed that way, she couldn’t pick and choose who looked. She got mad, but it was true. My male friend said even if she was dressed provactively, that didn’t give anyone the right to say anything, although she should have considered these guys are not all gentlemen.

I dunno. Was provocative dress involved? I wasn’t sure from the question.

Unless the reporter gave open, verbal invitation for them to relish and woo her, the behaviour of the men in the locker room was inappropriate. If I were their manager or PR Representative, I would be mega face-palming right now. Her beauty and attire are irrelevant. I often have a different view of what “provocative clothing” is anyway.

If the situation were reversed, and it was Washington Freedom hollering at a male journalist, I would still be rolling my eyes right now.

I’m not familiar with the story, having only just now been introduced to it.

But what I can say with relative certainty is that she probably dressed “intending to be noticed” (based on how she normally seems to dress for sporting events). Did she expect catcalls and whistles? Perhaps—most probably—not. After all, she’s there to interview “professionals” who are all (or mostly) millionaires, and most probably already family men, too. Who would expect this kind of behavior from a room full of dedicated young millionaires who have to compete regularly just to keep their jobs?

But she may have failed to take into account that these were the New York Jets, who—let’s face it—don’t have the class and discipline of some other teams in the league. In fact, their schtick these past couple of years with Rex Ryan as the coach is to be “the new outlaws”, similar to what the Oakland Raiders used to be.

So, okay: half-naked young macho athletes with little class and discipline were interviewed by a hot Latina reporter “dressed provocatively” (whatever that means—I haven’t seen the particular photos of her outfit). And whatever offense she may have taken (or perhaps, others may have taken because she DID get the attention one presumes she wanted, though perhaps in more degree)—did she ever feel threatened, unsafe, in danger? I doubt that very much.

I’m wondering who reported on the “offensiveness”, and the particular motive behind that report. I’m wondering if professional jealousy might be a factor in this “story”.

But with that said, I do not think that women should be objectified in this manner. I feel bad myself when it happens, because I like to look at women who are dressed “provocatively” and keep my hands and my comments to myself.

She is an ass. A hot ass… But still an ass.

I do not get it. It is so bogus that reporters can come in the locker room.
But these guys, that just kicked ass, have to to have a “professional” demeanor. let them burn off that testosterone.

When a honey walks in the room looking all yummy and such. She needed to blow it off and accept how us Men behave. She said she has dressed that way for years without problems. I say she if full of it, and/or she lucked out.

You will find what really is motivating her down the road.

Bottom line. Men are going to act like men. If the ladies want to hang around, they need to accept it. Just like we can accept a hottie showing her fine ass off.

Brought to you by AT&T.

She did for the attention and she got it. This controversy will do wonders for her career.
It would have been much better if the guys simply ignored her but, in general, athletes aren’t brain surgeons.

@ChazMaz Not all men are like that. Yet they all have testostorone.

@ChazMaz That falls under the category of “boy will be boys”, which is a total cop out. You do a disservice to men by calling that appropriate behavior by “us men”.

Much ado about nothing. Apparently, it’s a slow news cycle.

Ya know. It was cat calls. No one tried to grope her. Or molest her. And it was not the whole team either.

That falls under the category of “boy will be boys”, which is a total cop out.

It was a set up waiting to happen. It is not about boys being boys. It is about being human. And improper behavior on both sides of the road.

So men can’t cat call. But women can strut around all sexy. Great. I luv that double standard.

I just read this article where she stated that she was meerly embarressed by their behavior but she wasn’t the one who filed the complaint.
Now if she was dressed as she was in this article than I would have to say her clothing where not at fault here.
That said, she said what some of them said and it seemed rather harmless jest. Players often jest with guy reporters as well. I don’t see what the big deal was.
And she may also have no say over her clothing. It very well could be that at her job if she isn’t sexy enough than she won’t get the assignments. Beauty is always being exploited. Whether your male or female in the media industry.
BTW, this is the article

@ChazMaz So only organized gang rape would make you angry?

Here we go. Back into fantasy land.

Yea, that’s right. Cat calling = gang rape.

@cyanoticwasp After all, she’s there to interview “professionals” who are all (or mostly) millionaires, and most probably already family men, too. Who would expect this kind of behavior from a room full of dedicated young millionaires who have to compete regularly just to keep their jobs?
Being Professional, married, millionaires does not preclude them from being assholes: OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, Tiger Woods just to name a few.

Did she invite it? Yes.
Should they have provided it? No.

@ChazMaz Neither of us said that, right? I’m just asking if since you were saying cat calls are okay because they’re not gang rape whether you’d be angry at the latter?

For those who are wondering what she was wearing, see here.

Gang raping having nothing to do with the discussion. A weak effort to push a button.
And, I am not angry.

I just think it is overblown.

And, ok (sort of) under the circumstances. You have to step out and look at all of it.

@ChazMaz Okay, I didn’t bring it up.
@bob_ So what does it matter that it was that outfit over any other? We don’t need to see what she was wearing – this is what Maxim (the bottom of the gene pool) tells women they want to see them wear (but I’m assuming just for them, in the bedroom, the whole madonna/whore complex) yet when someone makes a peep about harassment, it’s not ‘appropriate wear’?

@bob_ Damn, that’s an ass! But kinda skanky. dialogue inside my head!

@Chazmaz I think the strength of the emotional response has to do with a long history of the “she was drunk/dressed slutty/dancing sexy and asking for it” response to rape (a response that was deplorably successful in many, many cases). Historically, rape has been under-reported and under-prosecuted, and there is still a huge social stigma for women that can sometime prevent them from reporting rape. It’s clear that there was no attack and no rape, but it’s a matter of degree. A man who objectifies a woman with comments may also be the type of man who objectifies a woman with rape.

What @syz says!
I’m jealous because I have a flat butt.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I didn’t say it mattered. Some said they were wondering, I happened to have the link.

@bob_ helfpul…‘cause it’s not like we’re on the internet or anything, :)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Helpful is my middle name ;)

I don’t see a problem with the outfit. Although she may need to stop washing her pants in hot water. LOL

That got her catcalls? Yes she’s very well built. That didn’t deserve unsolicted comments. I expected to see all kinds of cleavage or something from the comments before I got to bob’s picture.

To answer the question, let me put it this way. Say you get robbed while using an ATM in a shady part of town at 3 in the morning. Should you be allowed to be out at any time? Absolutely. Could you have done something to avoid it? Probably.

@Adirondackwannabe You can’t see how low her shirt is unbuttoned from that picture.

I’m glad to see that the, as usual, the victim is to blame.~ There is absolutely nothing provocative about a pair of jeans and short-sleeved shirt, tucked in.

Good luck asking a group of men whose profession involves using brawn and not brain to have some manners lol.

They should have had some manners, and it is usually customary to dress professionally at work.

But men are men, women are women, it happens. I think the whole thing should have been ignored if no one was offended. If she was offended, there should be consequences and you move on.

@chyna How low? And I still don’t think showing assets is a request for unsolicted comments. That’s third grade stuff.

Amen @Blackberry! And, GA.

@Adirondackwannabe I have no idea, her back is to the camera. They have 3rd grade mentality, they are football players.

@chyna Most of them spent some time in college, so by that age they should be a little bit socialized. There does seem to be a few more delinquents making their way into the league.

I don’t think catcalls are harassment. I do think they’re totally a stupid way to try to get a sexy woman’s (or man’s) attention.

One comedian put it best: “Mommy, how did you and Daddy meet” “Oh honey, I was walking by this construction site, and your father started saying the most disgusting sexual things to me…I just knew it was meant to be.”

@Blackberry I agree. Don’t understand where someone thought a locker room is a place to find respectful behavior.
It wasn’t the reporter who filed the charges. She thinks they said some things that made her a bit embarressed but she feels they didn’t get too out of hand.
I posted a link to an article where she said some of the stuff they said. They were all pretty lame.

1. I disagree that she was dressed provocatively. She was wearing jeans and a top.

2. She herself never complained that she was sexually harassed.

3. How is it ever the woman’s “fault” what the men do?

@marinelife #3 And that is the ultimate question.

@bob_ if that was what she was wearing . It’s not that provacotive. I mean jeans and a shirt. Tight jeans but oh! well. So she probably like the attention. I don’t see what the big deal is here.

She does have a fantastic ass.
And, was voted most beautiful sports reporter in the world.

From what I have seen of her interviews after the incident, she didn’t think she was being harassed until one of the other reporters told her she had a case.

As anyone that has watched a little Mexican TV should know, to be popular there you have have the correct packaging and be able to sell it.

@WestRiverrat As opposed to the deeply intellectual American TV?

@bob Mexican TV is different, that reporter would be over-dressed on most shows

@jaytkay Um, yeah, I’m Mexican, I think I have a good idea of what Mexican TV is like.

On a mexican talk show, their guest was Vida Guerra, they talked for a bit, and then she got into a susdy hot tub in a skimpy bikini and paraded her ass around like it was a huge diamond…...this was a normal talk show….

@bob_

LOL_

@Blackberry And here is your “normal” American show.

Are guys allowed in the girls locker room?

Ms Sainz is from Spain and reporting for a Mexican network.

What she was wearing apparently on that particular day was not inappropriate…jeans and a tucked in shirt. What she has worn before…a lot of lowcut clothing probably could be interpreted provocative…but certainly not something that any person should comment sexually about.

You also need to understand the culture…Mexican TV presenters and reporters are known for their provocative dress. Mexican TV is notorious for objectifying female reporters (even good ones) and I’m sure that she was hired not just for her brains but because she was beautiful and slender and well-built. I am sure that her bosses cultivate that image for the ratings (even though she has posed for magazines.) If she was in a locker room, waiting…and wearing jeans…or wearing a big old muu-muu…no one should have been rude either way.

Walking down a street in Mexico…if you are a woman and even relatively nice-looking, you will elicit dozens of wolf whistles, cat calls, etc. It’s just what happens. I was never offended. Most times, I would laugh and say, “Thank you very much, gentlemen” and keep walking. I’m sure if it had gotten really sexually offensive, I would have been upset. But it never did. I just waved it off and so did most of the women I knew. It’s more of an appreciation for a female than anything derogatory. It seems that the Jets crossed the line from appreciation into something else. (Possibly.)

Now, if someone looks like a pin-up in stiletto heels and a see-through blouse, she is going to get that kind of attention. Basically, my point is that if Ms Sainz dresses the way she does, it is probably due to her job and also her personal fashion “stamp”. That’s who she is. You won’t see her wearing Laura Ashley dresses any time soon. It’s not her style. Is it the best choice for her job? Probably not. She won’t be taking over Katie Couric’s job anytime soon that way. But she may not want it.

Granted, she may not be taken seriously (which isn’t a good thing), but she should not be harassed. Apparently, the comments were sexual, but we don’t yet know the extent of what was said/done. Would a nice-looking and ripped male reporter in a see-through shirt get the same treatment in a locker room? No. I don’t think she would have lodged a complaint (is what I am saying) unless something quite grave was said/done.

Does this call for a lawsuit? Perhaps….but we have to wait to see all the evidence.

link

@bob HAHAHHAHAHAH! I am pretty sure their ratings have dropped significantly over time though, thankfully.

What’s a “susdy” hot tub? :-)

@bob_ It is not any better or worse than American TV, Mexican TV just has different standards of what is and isn’t appropriate. Ms Sainz should not have been met with the catcalls, that was inappropriate in the NFL. I am saying, if she would have been reporting on the Mexican soccer team, in Mexico, she would have expected the response she got.

Personally, I feel if she didn’t know she was supposed to feel harassed until someone told her to be, she wasn’t harassed to a level that merits legal intervention.

Okay, I stopped reading about halfway through but here are my 2 cents.

In American society, it is considered rude and sexual harassment to express to a woman that she is sexually attractive, whether is manifests in the way of catcalls, telling her how sexy she is, saying someone wants to have sex with her, etc. etc. I do not think there is anything inherently wrong with this. However, in our society, women are taught to be terrified of any man, especially one who pays her any kind of non-platonic attention. I think if you are going to dress in jeans so tight we could see the outlines of scars if she had any then, yes, she was inviting the comments much like a man who wears pants that tight would be inviting comments about his own obvious display of genitals or maybe lack thereof. Personally, as a female, I would like to live in a society where a man can say something of that nature to me within reason without my feeling harassed.

That having been said, I think it was in poor taste for the men to make the catcalls but I think it was in equally poor taste to wear such an outfit.

@WestRiverrat….You know what is interesting…that if she had been in the locker room of a Mexican soccer team….she would probably not have received catcalls. That’s the paradox. Soccer guys would know she was a reporter and would have respected her no matter what she was wearing. It may not make sense to anyone who doesn’t know the culture, but it probably would play out that way.

@DarlingRhadamanthus That is probably true.

Uplifting high-brow TV

It seems like Santo and Blue Demon are on 24 hours a day. It’s like the Law and Order of Spanish TV

Here’s a question, who fucking cares? Did any of them touch her? Then what the hell is she so upset about? What does she expect, dressing provocatively in a ROOM FULL OF FOOTBALL PLAYERS?! Whistles and cat calls are nothing. Today at work I was hit on by 2 different men, and this is men standing a foot away from me looking me in the eye. If I was going to get offended by someone whistling at me, god, I would have called the cops when the one guy started going off….I mean….she has a bunch of photos of her in bikinis. What. Does. She. Expect.

And this would be a different story if someone touched her, tried to assault her, whatever.

@deni: I was just speaking to my mother about this. Why is it taboo for someone to make non-threatening comments about a woman who is dressed sexually? I have purple hair and I don’t feel threatened when someone comes up to me and tells me how much they like it or hate it nor do I feel threatened when someone sees my tattoo and comments.

Goddamn people who get all worked up about sexuality.

@KatawaGrey seriously – I thought sexuality was supposed to be fun…

I gotta say that female reporters should not be allowed in a men’s lockerroom.
If it was up to me, I wouldn’t allow male reporters either. Give these atheletes a few minutes to shower and dress.

Maybe the thread should check out this question
http://www.fluther.com/97263/what-is-behind-the-fairly-recent-appearance-of-the-cult-of/

@josie wait, isn’t that YOUR thread? ;-)

i have taken (been put through) sexual harassment training at my job (as i suspect many who work for large corporations or the government have, also). basically, what it came down to is that anything that offends anybody can be viewed as offensive, and therefore subject to the harassment guidelines and disciplinary action. disciplinary action can be anything from a write up to termination of your job. it is very “politically correct,” it is also vague and makes everyone somewhat paranoid about offending others. i had a postcard book of “vintage erotic art” which consisted of historical erotic art from various cultures. i was told someone was offended by it and not to have it around any more. anyway, what the Jets management is saying is that it is a work place like any other.

however, i don’t feel a locker room with naked men that just finished a fight on a football field is necessarily the same as a cubicle with guys doing accounting work. i think despite what the lady was wearing that day (and we can’t see the front of her clothing, just the back), a beautiful woman in a locker room with men who are naked might make them think lewd thoughts, i think that’s the way men are wired.

and yes, if you look at Spanish TV, all the female reporters dress to impress and they are all pretty.

I read some of this at work, but couldn’t answer from my phone. Men will act that way toward a women no matter what we wear. Trust me. Their behavior was very disrespectful.
My two cents

@iamthemob Oh, wow. You’re right. sorry

What @jca said. These guys had just come off the paying field, still charged up with abnormal amounts of adrenaline and testosterone. Expecting them to behave in a professional and decorous fashion is unreasonable. I think they should be allowed to come down after being so ramped up before anyone interviews them. I really don’t think any blame should be assigned here.

@deni – GA… And… Whose ass do you need me to kick! ;-)

LOL I JUST LOOKED AT @bob_ ‘S PIC AND i now emphasize what i said earlier. come on, woman, seriously? how do you even get out of those pants? looks painful.

@ChazMaz :)

@deni A comment on that site said “For the love of God, woman, those pants are raping you!” I LOL’ed.

@bob_ Brings a whole new meaning to “butt munching.”