I would like to know why some feel it necessary to come into a Question and point out how others are wrong instead of just giving their view on it?

I disagree.

“they have to argue (it should never be an argument) and push a point that they know better than anyone else.”

Well, I do know better then everyone else. :-)

I (and apparently many others here) view some questions as discussion starters, not just means to answers. I think it’s valuable to be able to see differing points of view of the differing points of view. Flaming and attacks, no. Discussion, yes.

Oops.

@zen_ It is in Meta :)

@JilltheTooth I would agree with that a healthy discussion where each gives their view would be welcomed by all but when name calling starts or judgements that is unacceptable and you will end up not getting the information the questioner is seeking. THANKS

@chels Hence the oops. By the way – I am peaking into your room right now. Nice bra.

Because that’s how thoughtful discussion works. One points out the flaws in existing counter-arguments. Because sometimes truth is “one way”.

If we were talking about astronomy, and you (and others) happened to mention how “the sun and the stars go around the Earth”, and I merely made an observation that “the Earth goes around the Sun, and the Sun goes around the stars”, you might think that you could simply choose one of the arguments over the other, as both are “equally valid”. No. The wrong idea has to be discredited, demolished, destroyed and cleared from consciousness before the right idea can take root.

That’s how science works.

If we were just talking about “your feelings” vs. “my feelings”, well, you’re probably not going to be ‘wrong’ when you describe “your feelings”. Probably. (But you’re probably not going to be ‘right’ if you try to describe mine, either.) So that’s a different argument.

Like anything else, it depends on the context of the questions and the answers.

@CyanoticWasp

There it is. There lies the problem when someone thinks their knowledge is more correct than another. It is fine to give an opinion and say how you feel and what you think you know but to put others down and discredit, demolish, destroy others experience, knowledge and understanding is flat out not the right thing to do. It is not up to any of us to be judge, jury and executioner. None of us are Gods and do not have that right.

@JustmeAman no, of course not. And if you want to think that the Sun rotates around the Earth every day, then you’re free to believe it. But if expound nonsense like that, your arguments will be shot down. Repeatedly. And without “opinion” entering into the question.

But why is it necessary to put someone down? The put down is more than not against the person and not the view. I agree that sometimes the absurdity of what is being said may truly be stupid and nonsense but it still is not up to another to put the person down. Give your own opinion and even show what you believe is evidence. But why do many think it is their right to embarrass, humiliate and put down a person for their view?

Some people are really just too full of themselves to be capable of seeing another’s point of view. Resorting to bullying tactics to push their supposed superior knowledge to belittle someone else’s views really just shows them for what they are, I’m far too polite to say :-/ oh I think I did, Lol…
unfortunately it’s the way of the world, to compete is to dominate, to control… :-/

I find the discussions here much less adversarial than anywhere else I’ve been. I think it is appropriate for people to address other people’s points in the discussion, and not just the question. The discussions are relevant, as well, since they help people evolve and detail their views.

You know, if it’s put downs you are concerned about, you should be aware that people put you down when they have no support for their beliefs. Just call them on it. Make them provide evidence. If they don’t, everyone sees them as a fool.

Try not to take things personally here. Sometimes people say things in ways that are derogatory. Flag those comments and have the mods remove them (assuming they see them as derogatory, too).

@wundayatta

Then do you believe that it is okay to put another down because of this view? Nothing wrong with addressing the view but to say they are wrong? Who is judge enough to think they have all the answers and they can tell others they are wrong. It’s much like the statement “He who is without sin cast the first stone”. Can you have your feelings, thoughts, opinions and your truths and yet still respect someone with a different view?

There is no need to push your opinions down someone’s throat, but it behooves everyone to correct those who are just factually wrong or painfully ignorant.

We need less ignorance in the world. If no one ever teaches the ignorant the difference between facts and opinions then the ignorant will never learn and we will never be able to grow as a culture.

@JustmeAman No, I don’t think it is polite to put someone down for a view. But it happens. I think having a thick skin is better than getting upset. But what is most satisfying is making the person who got down on you look foolish for having done so. In a polite way, of course. ;-)

@tinyfaery

Then you are saying that you are the one that can choose who is factually wrong or painfully ignorant? Now I am NOT calling any names I am responding to your answer. See I don’t think anyone here has the right to make that judgement. Also do you really think that teaches someone or do they get upset and close their mind even further? Another question for you and one more response. If the person you have judged is wrong and/or ignorant asks you a question they I think you should answer but still without calling them names. What do you think about responding this way?

I think the rest of you are wrong. Just sayin’.

@wundayatta

I do not think putting another in their place is the best solution either. I know it happens and that is what I am getting at. What if we just except others instead? I think it starts with “You/I/Me” and if others join in to stop the abuse I think it would help. What if when a name is called we get on the band wagon and tell that person before it goes on, to stop doing that? If we all did that how long do you think names would continue? Just a thought and hopefully taken in the best way possible.

No, science and other empirical means inform epistimology and that tells me who is wrong and ignorant. And I don’t care how people respond. As I said, I have no need to make people convert to my opinion. However, if someone insists that there is no such thing as gravity then I will correct that person as long as needed or until I get bored.

@JustmeAman : Did you mean ”accept” or ”except”? It changes the tone of your post. just wondering.

@JustmeAman I am unwilling to accept people attacking me and using that as a guise for a serious argument. I will call them on it. I am not disposed to feeling kindly towards them, but sometimes I will try to be kind, and this works better than when I’m hostile. But there are times when I can’t rustle up any kindness. So I tell them where they went wrong in attacking me, personally, and I give them a taste of my hostility, although within the bounds of fluther rules, I hope.

Let me give you a tiny example. You made a spelling/meaning error in your last comment. You wrote, “What if we just except others instead?” I think you meant accept, not except. Perhaps not. Perhaps you want to make an exception for others?

A lot of people might assume this is a sign that you don’t know how to spell, or something. But it could be one of those normal mistakes we all make on occasion. Or it could be that you don’t know the difference between the two. In neither case would it be kind to tell you what a bad speller you are and try to discount your ideas in that way, but a lot of people here might do that.

Usually, I just let things like that go. It’s not my job to be grammar police here. Lot’s of others do that. Although I don’t know how they do it.

Anyway, in doing so, I would be taking attention away from the real topic here, which, I might add, is difficult to talk about without examples.

@tinyfaery

So you think our science is infallable? Do you think all that science tells us is absolute? Do you think you are infallable?

@wundayatta I mean it with the utmost respect.

@JustmeAman

Are you telling me that you are willing to listen to someone say “Your hair is blonde”, and just say “You have a right to that opinion,” instead of saying “Uhm, it’s plainly red. Bright red. Couldn’t be less blonde”. Y’know, because who are you to decide what the word “blonde” means.

If you want a mechanical answer. Use Yahoo Answers.

@Seek_Kolinahr

No I would say it is red if that were true but I would not call them names for doing so.

@JustmeAman

So you would display the evidence that you have contradicting the belief that they displayed, instead of accepting their alternate viewpoint?

So this is about name calling? My comments do not pertain.

@Seek_Kolinahr

Sure if you think you have evidence then show it but one doesn’t have to be demeaning, rude, and abusive and embarrass another.

@JustmeAman

I’m sure you can appreciate how difficult it would be to refrain from snarky remarks after about the 15th display of evidence (See? red like an apple. See? red like a fire truck. See? Red like a cherry!), when the “opponent” is still maintaining that you have blonde hair.

I’m colour-blind. Just saying.

@Seek_Kolinahr

I do see that and I do understand that but the conversation should have ended long ago. If it starts to get that way what is the point? Why continue to push things when nothing gets accomplished and the other people kind of give up on the question?

@JustmeAman I suspect that perhaps you may identify too closely with your ideas, sometimes. I put down wrong ideas, misstatements of fact that I know to be false, and incorrect or illogical conclusions and kill them dead, but I generally try to do it pleasantly and politely. I don’t want to put people down—as a general rule—but I try to root out and stomp out false and bad ideas ruthlessly. If you stand too close to the idea, or if you identify it as part of yourself, that process can hurt.

Perhaps sleep deprivation? -:)

I don’t think there is anything wrong with correcting an incorrect response. If a person can’t do so without name calling, the best thing to do is ignore the name calling and flag it for a mod to remove. I would imagine people resort to name calling because they have let their feelings take over and are responding based on feelings instead of logic.

Debate, even very strong debate, is completely acceptable here. Personal attacks are not. Someone could say that your statement is utterly idiotic, but they may not call you an idiot. There’s a fine line, to be sure, but it is there.

If you state, with certainty, that 1+ 3 = 5, you will be refuted. If you then say, “Well, that’s my opinion, and you are no more right than I am.”, you will be soundly refuted, with evidence proving you are incorrect. You will be asked to provide evidence for your claim. When you respond, “I know what I know, and I don’t have to provide evidence of it.”, well, then, you’re just asking for trouble. This is particularly true if your debate is with a mathematician.

I imagine this thread is an example of what you think is the problem. Note, that two of the people disagreeing with you are doctors, and at least one is a nurse. If you have equal credentials and evidence, then it’s just a different point of view. If not, well, their arguments do hold more weight.

I just read far too much of that “debate”. I think I might have brain damage.

@Seek_Kolinahr
Yes..yes…yes.

It reads and rants like the question I
asked about goji berries. It was my
absolute worst experience on fluther.
And, I hope it never happens again.

Any answer on Fluther is subject to debate. There are some users who go about it all wrong by saying so and so is an idiot, instead of the correct ”I don’t understand that answer, could you explain further?”. To me, that is one of the greatest appeals of Fluther. I love the give and take between different points of view on the same subject.

It would get very boring if every answer following the first one said “Yes I agree with number one”.

So…if you post a question about your sick cat and list the symptoms, and someone gives you advice, and we have a vet here who knows that following that advice would probably be fatal to the cat, you don’t think the vet should disagree? I do.