Does anyone on this site believe in God?

Lots I’m sure.

I am Baha’i and I do believe in God.

+1

Agnostic here

Trust me…there are people who believe in god (in whatever form) here.

I know what motivated this question – make sure you read over people’s posts and assume only that they disagree with a point, and aren’t trying to insult you.

I do not believe in god(s), but there are plenty of users here who do (and some are more vocal about their beliefs than others.)

Does it really matter?

I do not, but I have met many that do.

Though this site isn’t a typical reflection of the general world population there remain many who believe in God.

Yes.

I do also.

@Lightlyseared Does any question on this site matter?

Nope, none whatsoever. We’re all hell-bound heathens here.

Here’s a site you might like as an alternative: http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

I do and I don’t. When you look at a flower in the sunshine you wonder where such a beautiful idea came from. I know science says life arose slowly and spontaneously from mud but on a clear morning in spring when the mountains are reflected in the still waters of the lake and the miracle of buds unfolding is all around you the scientific explanation doesn’t completely satisfy.

Yes, I believe in God

I do

Yes

I’m a godless Socialist.

Yup.

Plenty of people on here do, I know that. You can go anywhere and find people who believe in god.

I for one, do not.

I do and always will. Just read my mini-bio thingy.

Yeah, I do. I guess I don’t care if people do or don’t, though. It doesn’t change what I believe. :]

Bless the Lord, count me among those who would proudly say they believe and follow the LORD, be HE a myth or whatever anyone else believes….I know the truth.

I believe in every god from the Christians’ God to the ancient Romans’ Jupiter to the Hindus’ Vishnu.

Admittedly, I believe a little differently than your average believer. I believe that all gods are specific aspects of one divinity and no single god can completely encompass the whole of this divinity.

I teeter a lot, but in general, I’m Agnostic.

There are quite a number here who do, but not always in the form you might expect. I believe gods exist as ideas (or memes), and as such call myself an atheist, but there are plenty of users here who are believers in one form or another.

I believe in God.

Hello, I’m a godless liberal.

@SuperMouse I work around the corner from this http://www.bahai.pk/eng/howorship/images/Wilmette.jpg

Not me

Agnostic, with an inclination to want to believe.

@Master Like Mulder. You should get one of these.

Sure there are. In fact, all of fluther knows that I am real.

Emphatically, yes!

I try to keep my belief or non-belief in God personal. Wish more people did that. Maybe there would be a bit less polarization in our society.

Do people who believe in God see an un-belief in God as an attack on their faith? Sometimes I get that feeling from certain people. It seems that a disagreement is not just a disagreement, it’s an attack. To me, that just seems to indicate insecurity…

-1

I’m not too comfortable making public proclamations of faith. I don’t mind talking about my religion, though. They are not entirely the same thing for me, I guess.

What @johnpowell said would also apply to me.

Lots do on here, as you can see. Not me though, and I’m not the only one.

Guess I’m going to hell.
Why oh why didn’t I listen to those trying to save my soul?!
But on a serious note… I personally do not believe in the Bible or any particular God that any organized religion teaches and preaches about… But like some others on here, some days I like to think there is some higher power… but I don’t think it’s a person or object… something more of what you find when you look inside yourself.

I’m a big Christian.

He’s a good friend of mine.

@answerjill -Exactly.Public proclamations of faith-or lack of….who really gives a shit? ;)

I’m agnostic with atheist leanings. So, no.

As I said in another thread ,can you prove there is no Easter Bunny, well of course. Can you prove there is, or is not an end to outer space, NO. Can you prove weather or not there are real UFO’s, no I don’t think so. Can you prove there is no God? Can you prove there is a God? NO to both. So why is there so much hatred over the issue? I believe, if your belief (whatever it is) makes life meaningful and helps you hold true to your morals, then who am I to object? But what I do object to is someone forcing their beliefs on someone else. Get off my porch…..

@RANGIEBABY: You asked us if we believed in God. We all answered your question. Why are you so angry at us for answering the question you asked?

Also, I believe my mother moonlights as the Easter Bunny.

I am God.

@KatawaGrey I am not angry at all. What makes you think I am. It is just a question, and I am interested in why we all believe one way or another, if we can’t prove anything.:)

Yes.

@RANGIEBABY to be fair, virtually every answer was a plain yes or no, and then suddenly there’s talk of hatred and forcing beliefs on people, it’s kind of jarring and stands out from the matter-of-fact tone the thread followed

@RANGIEBABY: My apologies, it may have been your general tone and that “get off my porch…” at the end of your answer. My apologies. :)

Also, what @jaytkay said.

@ALL, I am sorry if I have mislead anyone. My question is short and I should have written a more complete question. Actually, what I was after was, if none of us can prove anything, why do we argue over it. I have seen out and out anger with people standing firm on their belief, condemning everyone else that does not believe the same way, as ignorant and unimportant. I just think it is silly for anyone to make enemies over an issue that cannot be proven without a doubt. Don’t you?

Define God, give two examples, and we’ll talk.

@ChocolateReigns “I’m a big Christian.”

I can appreciate that. But are we talking like large, super sized, or XXX Mucho Grande?

I’m very interested in knowing how many Theists confuse their Religion with their God.

My theory is that people are vociferous in their belief, in part for two reasons that most people don’t consider. The first is that it allows people to find others who believe as they do. The second is that this makes them feel more secure in their belief because they have many people to support them. The more who say they are right, the easier it is to believe they are right.

In other words, it is about tribalism. You share beliefs, and you share rituals, and you are part of the same community. You belong even though you are surrounded by strangers.

But as to your question about lack of proof—here’s what I think is happening. There are many theories used to either explain the existence of the universe or to explain why things happen to us. Few of these theories have any evidence to support them.

But meaning is incredibly important to people. We are always struggling to make meaning out of everything that happens, even the most random things. We think they happen for a reason. If they do happen for a reason, then we must look for the reason. The idea of God gives people meaning and that is its power.

It’s harder to make meaning when you don’t have any overarching meaning to base your thoughts on. My friend, only 60, has brain cancer, and may die in the next few days. Many of his friends have tried to visit him in hospice, but we have been unable to see him. Maybe he is saying he doesn’t want anyone; maybe it’s his family protecting him.

This is very difficult for me, because I believe it is a random event. My friend is a holistic doctor who has been living according to all the healthy practices science knows of, so it is so ironic that he has gotten brain cancer at a young age. He is a good friend and he has shared several very important experiences with me, and we always enjoyed each other’s company.

I don’t understand why he is going like this. It is too soon. I can’t even say good bye.

If I had a theory that God created the universe and gives it meaning, maybe I could come up with an explanation about why this is happening and what it means. However, the God theory is not one I subscribe to. I think it is extremely unlikely.

So I am left without that to create meaning, and I am struggling. This is a random event. It is a sad event. We have a community that gathers around to support our friend or family member. We are together. That is about all. I experience sadness and loss and shock and anger. As far as the world is concerned, there is nothing particularly special about this person. As far as I am concerned, he is very special; he is a good friend of mine; and that’s why I can’t make sense of this.

if it’s a person, it’s pretty darned special. not many of them out there in the universe

Depends on your definition.
Tell me what you mean by “God” and I’ll tell you if I believe in it/her/him.

@RANGIEBABY: Okay, that makes a bit more sense. Honestly, I don’t know many people who pick fights with someone because they do or do not believe. I think the biggest problem lies with those heinous acts and ignorant beliefs done/held in the name of one god or another. This, unfortunately, leads to people making blanket statements about certain gods and/or belief systems which leads to people hating those gods and belief systems. I, for one, have no issue with Islam or Muslims, however, a number of Americans hate Muslims and Islam because the men who hijacked those planes on 9/11 were Muslim and claimed that what they were doing was in the name of Islam. I do not fault Islam for this. I fault a bunch of stupid, selfish, ignorant men for this.

I do agree that people who pick fights with the other side are ridiculous and make me very angry. If an atheist asks me if I believe in God and I say yes, that’s not an invitation to insult my intelligence. I’m answering a yes or no question. What else do you want me to say? However, if a theist asks an atheist that and the atheist says no, that is not an invitation to expound upon the virtues of your chosen spiritual belief system.

I believe in the concept of a personal God.

I would love to believe that there are forces that can alter a situation one way or the other but there just seems there is no basis for that belief. So no, I do not believe in god or gods. I believe in following the laws of nature and doing everything we can to sustain life on earth wether it be plant, animal or mineral.

@Trillian That is the key! A personal God. Even Einstein believed in God, but failed to make the connection that God is a personal being by his/her very nature.

@wundayatta I am very sorry you are loosing a friend. Personally, I believe God gave us life and a brain. I don’t believe God is suppose to intervene in how we live our life, and fix things. That is why we have a brain so we can figure things out for ourselves. Scientist are working on things everyday to sustain a better quality and longevity of life. There are babies born with cancer and many don’t survive. That has nothing what so ever to do with God. It is combination of things that can go wrong with the amazing human being. Combinations of different cells from two different people, resulting in an off spring. Everybody can’t live to 100, that would be an unrealistic expectation.
Events happen in strange ways, and all we can do is realize the limitations of our own power.
You say it is ironic that he of all people would get cancer, and that he is too young. The only thing I can say is, when is it not too soon to lose someone you love?
In the grand scheme of things, I believe we are all where we are suppose to be, and even that can be altered by outside events.
I don’t mean to sound like a cold person, because I am not. But, it is what it is, and to question it will get us no where.
I hope you will find peace.

@RANGIEBABY I can understand people that belief respond very offended when their beliefs are challenged or god ridiclued.

I.m.o, many religious people just truly love their god and people in general don’t respond well to other people ridiculing their loved ones.

@Trillian I have been known to say the very same thing. My understanding of God is mine, and I don’t expect anyone else to believe in anything the same way I do.
If you stick 10 people in a lecture, you will most likely have 10 different answers as to what they got out of the lecture.
My beliefs are very personal and they work for me. Everybody is responsible for their own belief, in order to live their life to the best they can.

@Paxan8 I don’t believe their is a force that can alter a situation one way or another. Except, myself or other human beings. If you believe in Adam and Eve, things would have been different if Eve had not eaten that apple. We would all be living in the perfect world. But, God did not intervene to change anything. In other words, we all make our choices, some are good and some are bad choices. Then their are consequences either way, good or bad. I think too many people expect intervention from God, and when they don’t get it, they stop believing in our creator. Some turn away and get lost, others seem to manage quite well with their life.

I believe that my motto is “you create your life with every choice you make” but sometimes horrible things happen like earthquakes and floods and a couple (I said a couple…not all or most or a lot) of religious leaders say that happened because the particuar place is filled with heathens. I think that is horrible.

@Paxan8 great answer. Variety is the spice of life.:) It takes all kinds. :) Thank “God” I have my own brain with which to make choices. :)

I believe in God but not in any way yet described. The laws of the Universal is what governs our world and God doesn’t interfere. God is also bound by the laws of the Universe and cannot break them. He can make it seem that a miracle just happended in some instances but it was not, there are no miracles. It is only someone understanding the principles behind those laws that can alter anything. That even goes for Doctors. My wife has been seriously ill and survived and I attribute that to the knowledge her Doctor has. I had children that passed on because they were too small to survive outside the womb but had they been born today they would survive.

I will start by answering your question with a No, I don’t. But I would like to say that I have been a part of quite a few Religious questions on this here Fluther and I haven’t really seen any Hatred or disrespect really portrayed by anyone. I have seen Opinions given and Yes, I have seen some who take those Opinions Personally which in my Opinion, completely negates the whole purpose of why we are all here I think for the most part we all answer the God questions with honest answers and respond in kind. I believe to each there own, what works for one person may not work for the other. Nothing on a Q&A site should be taken personally. We are all here so we can express ourselves and maybe by doing so, find others of a Kindred spirit with our own and No, I don’t really believe in a Spirit Necessarily either

No! :-/

Yes, I do believe in God.

@plethora As do I. I have read many interesting reasons why and why not, and have come to the conclusion it is a very personal issue for each of us. What do you think?

@DominicX just wondering why you are directing me to this site. Here’s a site you might like as an alternative: http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page What was your point?

@Ben_Dover “Even Einstein believed in God, but failed to make the connection that God is a personal being by his/her very nature.”

Einstein believed in Spinoza’s god. I don’t think you’ll find anything in common between your idea of a god a Spinoza’s definition. Spinoza was a pantheist and to put it bluntly, pantheism is atheism dressed up as theism to preserve a vague sense of spirituality or to avoid making a clear statement of godlessness that would alienate the would be atheist, or even endanger them. As it was Spinoza was still exiled for his blunted disbelief.

In short, for Spinoza and Einstein god = nature. Until recently Stephen Hawkings referred to god in this sense. Of course in his last book he stated without embellishment that God was unnecessary in the universe. I suspect this is at least partially because he was sick of religious people hijacking his mention of a pantheist sort of god to show that he was on their side. If Einstein was still alive he would probably do the same.

Spinoza pretty much kicked ass.

I must say, I was married to a self proclaimed atheist. That issue was brought up one time for clarification, when we were married in the Catholic church. His belief or non-belief was never an issue in our marriage.
I am now remarried and have been for 35 years, and quite honestly I do not know what my husbands religious preference is. Nor, do I care. He has never done anything to cause me to think he was a bad or evil person. So, I leave his personal beliefs to him. My issue is me and my belief preference, for me to live by.

-1. I can’t bring myself to buy in to the omnipotent being idea of any faith.

@Russell_D_SpacePoet I would say that is your issue alone. What is the -1 for?

@RANGIEBABY -1 from the believers because I’m not one.. I am positive that I am not the only one that can’t buy in to the idea of an omnipotent being. So it’s not my issue alone.I don’t understand how you could say that. That’s why I am an atheist. Atheist don’t believe in god, a supposedly omnipotent being.

@fundevogel Einstein believed in Einstin’s god. Spinoza believed in Spinoza’s god.

Pantheism is not atheism dressed up in a mini skirt.

Pantheism is quite simply the belief that God is everything. Many people believe that God made the Universe. before he made it there was nothing. Ergo, everything is made from the energy of god. Ergo, everything is god. Simple, eh!

Hawking states The Big Bang was the result of the inevitable laws of physics and did not need God to spark the creation of the Universe,

Hawking stated this because in his opinion the universe naturally wants to make planets and life. However wrong he may be.

Regardless…Einstein admits to the existence of god. I don’t think you are relly in a position to tell me what Einstein was really thinking regarding this Creator Being.

But thanks for taking the shot.

@Russell_D_SpacePoet I only meant that it is your issue only, just as my belief is only my issue. It is personal and we don’t have to explain ourselves to anyone.
Knowing what you mean when you are typing, does not necessarily mean the reader is going to know what you meant to say. Sorry for that :)

@RANGIEBABY Oh ok. Didn’t come across that way. Sorry… I guess you understood what I thought you meant. :)

@Russell_D_SpacePoet Sure did. I seem to do that quite a bit. I think my brains runs a little faster than my comprehension. hehe

If everyone claps then tinkerbell lives…. <———this is what I would say if I did not believe in God. However I do, and so that is an inappropriate thing to say.

I assumed this question was a response to the seeming sudden surge in agnostic/atheist themed questions lately. We seem to have a good mix of beliefs here. I have a strong belief in God/Universe AND I’m a card-carrying liberal. BOOYAH!

@SundayKittens It isn’t a surge, this has been happening regularly since I joined. Even back then people were already complaining that they’d already tackled religion upsidedown, insideout, backwards and halfway to Sunday.

I most certainly do.

@fundevogel And now we are going through the other half of Sunday.

I would like to believe in a God, but which one? There are a bunch of Roman Gods that folks use to believe in (Apollo, Cupid and Mercury are cool). Do the Greeks still believe in Zeus, Heracles and Hermes? Today there we have several religions serving God (Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Mormons). Which religion is corect? They can’t all be right. The more that I learn about the various bibles the more skeptical I am of God. The Book of Mormon is a total fraud (I can prove that) and yet millions of good people around the world believe the BOM to be true. This has caused me to distrust anything and everything on any bible. Jesus Christ, I might as well start believing in @ChazMaz above.

@tragiclikebowie, you would say you’re closer to atheist and not call yourself an agnostic? Maybe you really are an atheist, then? (just wondering, NOT making any judgements! ;0) )

@gondwanalon

Have you heard of a book called the Trial of the Stick of Joseph? You ought to read it because it was the BOM put on trial to see if it was correct according to our legal system. You have no proof that the BOM is a total fraud as no one can prove or disprove writings even from the Bible.

@RANGIEBABY

No definition, no comment. (?) ...

@JustmeAman How do you know that I can’t prove that the BOM is a fraud? I presented 15 huge problems with the BOM to Mormon missionaries at their church and to 2 other Mormon friends of mine and they offered no explanations. The following is just one problem with the BOM:

The BOM says that the 10 lost tribes of the Hebrews traveled to America to live where no man has lived before and became the ancestors of the American Indian. The problem is that American Indians are not descendants from Jews (or Laminites). Genetic authorities from the Smithsonian Institution, medical centers, scientific research centers, and universities around the world agree that American Indians originated from North Eastern Asia and are not of Jewish origin. (mDNA, and hereditary traits).

I don’t need to prove that the BOM is a fraud, science does that quite well.

What does BOM mean?

@KatawaGrey BOM is Book of Mormon

@RANGIEBABY Thank god. I thought it meant like, that book is the BOM(b)!

@gondwanalon
there is only one God. I Am.

@gondwanalon The Book of Mormon doesn’t say that the 10 lost tribes traveled to the Americas. However, it does talk about a few different groups who did. In fact, the Book of Mormon shows a pattern of God leading groups of people to the Americas, and there could be many more that aren’t mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Sure, some people have speculated that the groups mentioned in the Book of Mormon are ancestors of the American Indian, but it doesn’t say that anywhere in the Book of Mormon. In fact, because one of the major groups talked about in the Book of Mormon was completely wiped out, it would be even less likely that you’d find DNA evidence.

Anyways, enough of that tangent.

@JustmeAman You might like to read “An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon” if you’re interested in this stuff.

To answer the original question, I just joined this site, and, yes, I believe in God.

Would somebody pah-l-e-e-e-z-e Define God.

and give two examples

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies If you don’t know inherently, there is no explanation which will help.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I’ll second that.
@Ben_Dover How do you know if your instinctual idea of God is the same as other people’s, if you can’t describe what you believe?

@gondwanalon

You tell good stories but not any of them come from the BOM so no you have no proof period. And I don’t have to prove it false or true either but you don’t have what you think you have. @justsomerandomguy is correct and there is nothing in the book of Mormon that says what you just stated @gondwanalon.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies
lurve for making me laugh

@FireMadeFlesh
The best way I’ve figured out to explain it is to compare it to our senses. I hear with my ears, I see with my eyes, etc. I know God and spiritual things with my soul. I don’t think I could explain what it’s like to see to someone who has never seen anything. However, when I talk about reds and blues and greens, someone else who can see knows what I’m talking about.

I’m not saying that those who don’t understand are soulless. Rather, it is like homing in on one person who’s talking in a room full of people talking. You have to learn what the voice sounds like and train yourself to hear it.

God, to me, is the entity who created the Heavens and the Earth, and the things on it. He also takes responsibility for His creations, and particularly for His children, who were placed here to populate the Earth. He has a plan and a purpose, and is benevolent and very wise. And tolerant too, allowing His children to choose, which is why we can get away with being disrespectful (and ignorant at times).

@phaedryx

My issue is: what makes someone who experiences Shiva and Vishnu with their soul incorrect? For almost every deity on earth, there is someone who experiences it. But then why do we have to be so intent on one specific deity being the “correct” one?

I’m not saying you are saying that, but a lot of theists do.

@DominicX

I understand that view and will state why some feel one is being correct. There are scriptures that say “I am the life and the way he that follows me will not perish”. Scriptures that point out that Christ is the only way back to the Father and his presence. I think these may be the reasons and issues. In every religion on Earth we all have those feelings and I would never say they are incorrect. Many of the Christain faith believe that if you don’t believe in Christ then you go to hell. But what of those that never even heard the name nor ever heard any of his words through others or scripture? Every being has the ability to progress and none of us have all the answers.

But what of those that never even heard the name nor ever heard any of his words through others or scripture?

I went to a Christian Reformed college for a year and they taught that all those people are going to Hell.
If you were born before Christ lived, if you were born in a non-Christian family – whatever the reason, you cannot go to heaven.

@jaytkay Don’t forget aborted babies; they go to Hell too.

See would that really be a fair and just punishment if you were one of those individuals and if there is a God would that be just for him to do? No and No that is NOT this way or it is not this was as I have discovered through my own life.

@phaedryx I really don’t mean to be disrespectful here, but isn’t that imagination? Haven’t you just trained yourself to think along the lines of the teachings of the Bible (or whatever sacred text you follow), and when an idea comes to you you believe that God gave you the idea?

When I was a Christian, some of my best ideas used to come to me in the middle of prayer. Since then, I have trained myself to be able to enter similar states of relaxation without the religious connotations, and I still get those good ideas.

@FireMadeFlesh: As a theist, I have had people ask me the same thing and I can tell you, it is extremely disrespectful. I like you so I’m not going to get nasty and disrespectful myself but please bear that in mind when speaking to a theist.

@JustmeAman

I understand why it’s done, in the case of Christianity especially, but I don’t understand how someone can just write off all the other religious beliefs in the world. People say that they know the Christian God is real because they have “experienced” Him. But, on the other side of the planet, you have people who have “experienced” their own gods. How do we know what they’re experiencing isn’t valid or real? How do we know who is “right”? I suppose that’s just one of the things preventing me from being a theist…

@DominicX: Why can’t we all be right?

@KatawaGrey I realise that it can be, but I would like an honest answer. I am certain that I once imagined God telling me things, and I want to know if I was unique in that, and if there really is a voice of God I want to know how to tell the difference.

@FireMadeFlesh: I’ve had a similar discussion with another Jelly. He asked me the same thing thinking that obviously any theist was only imagining when the divinity spoke. The difference? You think it’s only you and I think it’s not, Neither of us is wrong. Any theist who tells you you’re wrong is just as ignorant as any atheist who tells me I’m wrong.

Just as, ”all roads lead to Rome.” So too do all religions lead to God. And regardless of what religion you practice, and what ”God” you pray to, there be only the one God. And s/he is Lovingkindness.

@Ben_Dover: You know that saying is figurative, right? ~

Perhaps, but saying that all religions lead to God is not figurative in the least,

@Ben_Dover: Actually, it is incorrect. For an excellent example, look at Buddhism. Buddhism does not have a god. In fact, Buddhism is about attaining enlightenment. The Buddha is a being who has attained enlightenment and, in fact, anyone can be a Buddha. that is one religion that has no god whatsoever.

When you attain enlightenment, you will be face to face with God. Buddha knew it, but Buddha did not want people to worship him just because he had found a way to becoming enlightened.

So in other words: rewrite every other religion in the world in the context of your own religion.

@Ben_Dover: Ah, you misunderstand. “Buddha” isn’t a name. “Buddha” is a title for someone who has attained absolute enlightenment. And, sine you seem to be so determined to be ignorant, I’m going to just come out and say it. All faiths do not lead to your Christian god. They lead down their own roads to their own gods or lack thereof. Enlightenment is not equivalent to blind faith in your god.

Take a look at the oldest religion in the world still around: Shinto. In Shinto, one worships nature, not gods.

@justsomerandomguy and @JustmeAman I wonder what version of the BOM you have. I have a copy of the first edition BOM from 1830 as well as a modern BOM. The first edition is very different from the Modern BOM as it has been edited many timed over the last 170 ears.

@justsomerandomguy True the BOM doesn’t just start out-right that the lost Hebrew tribes Nephites and the Lamanites. But the introduction of the modern BOM says: “It (BOM) is the record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas… their record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C. and afterwards separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.”

There is no evidence that these “great civilizations” ever existed. No building ruins, no gold and silver coins (Alma 11: 5–19) , no armor or swords of “the most precious steel” (1 Nephi 4:9), nor iron industry (as claimed in Alma 11: 5–19). There are many more problems too numerous to write here.

People are still finding Roman artifacts in Europe. Why is the no evidence left of the Nephite and the Lamanite civilizations being dug up in the Americas?........Because the story of in the BOM is fiction NOT holy scripture.

@gondwanalon
You have a copy of the first edition? Awesome. That is rare and probably worth something. You say it is “very different.” In what way? I know the Book of Mormon has been edited, including spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc. Have the edits changed the doctrine in some way? Could you give an example?

Certainly you concede that great civilizations existed in central and south america? That they had some pretty amazing buildings? That they thought gold and silver were valuable and used it for exchange? (Atahualpa, leader of the Incans, offered the Spaniards enough gold to fill the room he was imprisoned in, and twice that amount in silver, in order to be freed.)

I looked at your references and I don’t see any mention of an “iron industry”. Lastly, Easton’s 1897 Bible dictionary has an entry for steel. Pretty interesting when you consider what “steel” means in the Bible, and in the time period that the Book of Mormon was published.

Send me a private message if you want to continue this. I’ve hijacked this question enough already.

@gondwanalon

Jack West has a slide collection (over 3000 slides) from South America and I have seen it. They have found all of what you posted that you said have not been found. There are highways that still exist because the cement the ancients used is far better than our cement. There are pyramids that are exact measurements of the Egyptian ones and so much evidence it isn’t funny. In a few North American States they have found mounds of dirt they removed and found many bodies that were buried long ago and some weapons in the midst of the piles which is stated in the BOM. Here is a link http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=167. I have seen with my own eyes writings on plates of brass, other metals and on plates of all kinds of stone that have been found all across South and North America and many in mounds. Why is it so important to you to put down what you don’t agree with? What is your goal and why?
?

@justsomerandomguy & @JustmeAman
It is truth that I seek and I mean no harm. Perhaps the truth is painful to you. I suffer too as it seems as though no answer is ever good enough for me.

The supporting information that you state is far from conclusive of Lamianite or Nephite activity or evidence of two “great societies” (BOM introduction) existed. Show me the the gold and silver coins that the Nephites used (Alma 11: 5–19). By the way Native American Indians never used coins. Show me evidence of an iron industry that is needed to produce steel swords (Nephi 4:9) Native American Indians didn’t have steel knives or swords.
Native American Indians were not descendent from hebrews from Jerusalem as claimed by the BOM. Scientists around the world agree that the Native American Indians are of Northern Asian decent not Hebrew and likely came to the Americas crossing over the Bering land bridge about 25,000 years ago.

I think that when presented with facts that any reasonable person can see that the BOM has so may major problems with it. So much so that it should be considered a very poorly written fictional story.

The 1830 edition of the BOM it nearly unrecognizable compared to the modern BOM. I have it on a CD not the actual book.

I envy you for your strong beliefs. Good health to you.

I have faith in nothing now that I’ve been exposed to the BOM.

I’m probably going to get exiled from Fluther.com for this.

@gondwanalon

I guess we all see from our own set of eyes.

@JustmeAman By the way the BOM’s incredible story and would make a great movie if produced and directed right. I would definitely pay to see that. Good health!

I have seen far too much evidence to the contrary to believe in any sort of god(s).

Yes

YES

I do

@dominicX, I apologize for waiting so long to reply, but I just reread the answers here. I looked at the site conservapedia.com. I am a Christian, but I personally was disgusted by the site. Like @SundayKittens, I am a “card carrying liberal” (most of the time, anyway!). I don’t vote according to any set of opinions except for my own. I am an environmentalist and I support single payer health care. I wouldn’t have an abortion, but I don’t feel I have any right to stop anyone else from having one. I also don’t agree with the “Young Earth Society”.

I realized God for myself, so now know God. I use to sense or believe in God, but that is not the same as realizing and being certain of and knowing God.