Why do many Christians place greater emphasis on Jesus' death and alleged resurrection than on his words?

it sells more

Perhaps you have only scratched the surface on what Jesus was actually providing us by giving his life for us.
Not only does he die on the cross to atone (at one) for all humanity, but he shows us that death is merely a transitory stage in our life cycle. Remember, not only does he die on the cross, but later (3 days later) he rises from the dead and lives again.

Now wouldn’t you think that was important enough to place a certain emphasis thereon?

I think Christ would be furious that everybody seems to ignore the meaning of his life in favor of the dubious claims of his resurrection.

I also think he would be really ticked off at all his followers for walking around with crosses around their necks. That was the murder weapon, after all…

He took the sins of the world on him in the Garden of Gethsemane not on the cross. He finished his task by giving his life. That is the greatest of all that anyone has done for mankind. If you believed in him and understood the significance of that sacrifice then there would be no question. His words were given and written to us from others who heard him and were not directly from him. His words are what most of the Christian world try and follow so I don’t think that your question is perceived correct.

I have never understood the mechanism by which Jesus allegedly took the sins of the world upon himself. I have also never understood why a loving God would require a blood sacrifice in order to be appeased.

I think Gandhi think the same way as you do,so many christians now that not all follows the teachings
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”-Mohandas Gandhi

I would totally agree with Gandi about most Christians are no where near how The Christ was but profess it though they could not be like him totally in this life.

Not that we want to debate it here, but most Christian dogma explains that Christ took on the sins of the world on the cross, not in the garden.

—

@Hobbes, for many Christians, Christ’s death and resurrection are proof positive that he is God. If Jesus were not God, then Christianity itself would be based on nothing more than 3 years in the life of a really nice guy. The deity of Jesus is core to the entire Christian viewpoint.

I’m sure you either read or watched The Da Vinci Code. This same point was made there. That if Jesus had married and had a child, then he could not be God and hence explaining why the Catholic Church was so focused on hiding the Holy Grail.

If Jesus was human why couldn’t he have children? That is just a veiw to support a movie that is fiction.

God marrying and having children leads to all kinds of problematic concepts. Just ask the ancient Greeks.

But Christ was not God he was his son having only half of his DNA.

Because that is the definition of Christian. Without the resurrection, there is no Christianity, Jesus is just another prophet, and all of today’s Christians would be Jews.
I would still be an atheist, so it is really not relevent to me anyway.

The resurrection is not him being on the cross. The resurrection comes later and there were many others resurrected at that time and thousands witnessed it. The Christ was the bridge that opened up resurrection and was possible because of his sacrifice by giving his life. The actual taking the sins of the world occurred in the Garden when he asked that the cup be passed from him and he sweat blood from every pour.

Its God, coming down to earth in the form of man (Jesus).
Showing the world that “he” is willing to go through the mill just as everyone else has/is. In order to convey the seriousness of it all and to show that man can endure and prevail. Though, Jesus did have some inside information. We, having to stand strong by faith.

The teachings being the inspiration and providing the strength needed to endure the “nailing to the cross”.
That being a right of passage allowing you the privilege of walking through the gates of heaven.

I place equal emphasis on His words and on the resurrection. He certainly came to redeem us. He also came to be an example, to teach us how to live in order to be worthy to return to the presence of the Father. That is not, nor never has been, considered unimportant. We need both parts.

No God himself did not come down to this Earth and live a mortal life that was his son the Only begotten of the Father. Yes his teachings are for the world to find the strength and will to endure. @eden2eve I agree we do need both parts.

If Jesus is God in human form, then of course he could have children. To say thet he couldn’t is to limit God.

“No God himself did not come down to this Earth and live a mortal life that was his son the Only begotten of the Father.”

Sure he did. As God is all things. Its part of the Holy Trinity. Father Son, holy Spirit.

All one of the same thing.

Why is Jesus seen as the “Son” of God. Because mankind could not and still can not see God without seeing a Family Tree or a structure. Father, Mother, Children.

Those are things we have to contend with. Not God.

The only way to the Father is through the Son. Why? Because the Son is God.

Back to what @JustmeAman said a bit ago…God has DNA? Interesting. Never heard that before…..

I have asked similar questions. I will never get why Christians think someones behavior is not more important to God than accepting Jesus as the son of God.

Why would God have to be born through a mother? If he can make Adam and Eve just appear, why have to enlist young virgin Mary? Virgin. It is abusive. Can you imagine asking a virgin girl to have to carry, labor, and birth a child. I find it it horrible.

@crazyivan I have a girlfriend who asks, ” if Jesus had been killed by a bullet would they be wearing that around their neck?”

He is the Son of God correct not God. I’m the son of God and was born to him spiritually but not physically thus the statement Christ was the only Begotten Son of the Father. @JilltheTooth Yes we all have DNA how do you think he was the Father of the Son?

“Why would God have to be born through a mother?”

Because if Jesus was just to appear, outside the realm of reality. Then it would be “witchcraft” and “demonic”. Putting fear into the minds of a “small minded” society.

By keeping it “real” made it easier to infiltrate the hearts and minds of the people.
I.E. Son of God.

Actually, we are all part God. Part of the “body”. When put together makes a whole.

@ChazMaz interesting explanation. Of course it could have gotten Mary a scarlet letter or possibly killed. I wonder how many times God tried it and the simple society decided the mother was a whore to be shunned or worse?

@JLeslie

God wasn’t born of an Earthly mother but his son was. Adam and Eve did not just appear they were created just as we are. God is not a magician. Adam was not created from dust nor was Eve created from Adam’s rib. That is figurative as is most of the Bible.

“Of course it could have gotten Mary a scarlet letter or possibly killed.”
True, that is why Joseph took on the responsibility. Or she would have been in big trouble.

Because it’s a nicer story and it’s simple ‘look, son of god died for us, for you, for me, for our sins’ – it’s a great tabloid story – why would anyone bother to actually sit and read and understand his words, his parables, etc. It’s too difficult, it’s not that emotional, it’s much more emotional to say ‘our savior, he died for me, god’s only son’ – it pulls at very human heart strings.

Correct Joseph stepped up to the plate and actually saved Mary from being stoned.

@ChazMaz and, is the argument it is God’s genetic material? Or, all of Mary’s genetic material? Mary could only produce a girl if somehow she accomplished some sort of baby all on her own.

@JLeslie correct Christ was half of God’s genetic material.

This is God we are talking about. Jesus being human would have genetic material.

Whose? Would be rather immaterial. ;-)

We are all of Gods genetic material.

@JustmeAman – how can anyone, anyone make claims like that like it’s nothing…it’s beyond me.

Back in the day, before we understood chromosomes and genetics peopled blamed the mother for the sex of the baby, of course we know now it is up to the man’s sperm. So, if Jesus has genetic material only from Mary, if she produced a physical being with her own genetic material, it would be a girl logically.

Earthbound logic.

@ChazMaz I think it is just more proof the bible is written with the logic and knowledge of that time. Ignorance of how babies are created helped the story along.

I agree.

Besides, I AM God. I mean Jesus.

To focus on the past in order to prepare for the future is causing many to stumble and miss the present where life is being lived.

You see Jesus never meant for people to focus on him asthe man of flesh, but as the Spirit of Truth, which is always present and brings whatever knowledge necessary for the present life.

When you live by this Spirit, you will then know that you know all things. Whether past present or future, you will know as the present life demands it.

Then striving after knowing what jesus said and did becomes irrelevant and vain pursuit. For he himself never did such neither told any to do such.

@ChazMaz I gave you GA on the last one, just in case.

You have nothing to worry about. :-)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

From my own study and commitment I have found answers too. Again I will not expose myself to redicule but will say that is my own humble opinion and leave it at that.

@kess

Much of what you are saying is what I have discovered as well again some of it. There is a lot to say about the spiritual side of oneself that many do not believe exists.

@JustmeAman Ridicule? I was just saying it’s beyond me how anyone can make a claim like you did – I’m a fan of science and genetics and to have either usurped into the land of religion simply irks me a bit but you are entitled to believe whatever and I’m entitled to question it.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

I agree and I’m entitled to respond as well. I understand the entire logic behind my statements and know (within myself) they are my reality. Genetics is a huge part of what we are and if Jesus was the Son of God then he had to have half of God’s DNA. We all begin as female and then from the genome of the man comes the change making a person male.

@JustmeAman God has DNA? Like he is actually a man sitting up there in the sky?

He is not a man as we understand man he has evolved and become a greater being but still he has his own DNA.

Er, back to the original question I do not know how anyone can state that “many” Christians put greater emphasis—whatever that means—on His death than on his words. Where are the studies on this theory? Or is it a scientific fact? Was it someone’s Ph.d thesis?

LOL @JustmeAman…god has his own DNA…;)

@aster if I act perfectly to what Jesus expected from us, but don’t accept him as my savior, I’m not going to heaven according to the Christians. There is my thesis.

@JLeslie Those are just words and I would not worry there is no one greater than another on this planet.

@JustmeAman – I like your statement “there is no one greater than another on this planet”. I think the problem with your argument concerning God’s DNA is that it implies God is a discrete, physical being with material form. I do not think this is how God is usually conceived.

@Hobbes You are correct many do not conceive him this way but then how could he have a Son. Many will say that it is a mystery of God and unexplainable but no we are created in God’s image and we procreate just as he does for his spirit children. Had Christ just appeared and not gone through a mortal for his life then we could not compare. This Earth and the way it was set up is a Universal Law and the planets and the Universe governs itself.

Also when one is resurrected then you do have both a physical and spiritual form again.

@JustmeAman fine, no greater than another on this planet, but are you letting me in after death?

@JustmeAman – Do you then believe that God has existed in a single human body since the beginning of time? Do you believe that God created the Universe? Do you believe that God actually had sexual intercourse with Mary?

@JLeslie in where?

@JustmeAman Heaven. The kingdom of God. I am an atheist Jew, are you letting me in?

Yes but there is no beginning to time, No God is a higher being helping his part of this Universe through their progression and No he did not physically do that there are other ways to impregnate a woman.

@JLeslie I am fascinated by all the new things I am learning today like all the different ways to impregnante a woman…anyway, screw Heaven, come hang with us in Hell, can you imagine how much fun we’ll have?

If God has existed in a human body all this time, where has he been? What is the Universe progressing toward, and where did these higher beings come from? What do you mean when you say there are “other ways”?

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – “I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints/ the sinners are much more fun”

Both heaven and hell are a state of mind and being. There is NO constant burning where you burn for eternity, this is figurtive and I agree it is a tool to control those who except that logic.

@Hobbes: Turkey baster.
@JustmeAman : Better flag this so the mods can take it away quick. Just couldn’t resist.

@JustmeAman Well, at least we agree that heaven and hell are figurative.

@JLeslie Great point. I do not believe it and I think it needs investigation but yes, of course I’ve heard that hundreds of times.

@JustmeAman – Do you believe that the world is the “Kingdom of God” and that it is made into heaven or hell based on our actions? Also, you didn’t answer my first two questions.

@JustmeAman : I think you mean ”accept that logic”

@Hobbes Is this my answers?

Yes but there is no beginning to time, No God is a higher being helping his part of this Universe through their progression and No he did not physically do that there are other ways to impregnate a woman.

@Hobbes I believe it is referred to the Kingdom of God and after our change that is the millennium this world will become as glass and be the highest kingdom where those that have evolved and progressed will reside.

@JustmeAman “This Earth and the way it was set up is a Universal Law and the planets and the Universe governs itself.”
Your “universal law” is more flexible than we mere mortals could ever understand.

The Universal law has always been and the being many call God or beings are subject to those laws.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir “anyway, screw Heaven, come hang with us in Hell, can you imagine how much fun we’ll have.”
You must enjoy hot weather?

Laws are subject to change. Einstein’s Second Law of Thermodynamics as been shown to be wrong. So much for laws. lol

@Aster You are comparing a three dimensional physical world to all the laws of the Universe mans understand and laws are limited to our current existance.

My darn keyboard is goofing up sorry for the typos.

Oh, I get it now, @JustmeAman isn’t a Christian I’m guessing.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Thanks. In my mind why wait? Better to party now. The Christians are worried about the afterlife, not me.

I am Christian in that I believe in The Christ. But interpretation is relative and left to the individual. There is an afterlife but there is no need to worry about it.

He died for us. That would overshadow His teachings!

Most Christians feel that the supernatural nature of Christ’s life and death and resurrection add weight and authority to his words and teachings. I think his life and his words are enough and we should have no less respect for those who die for their beliefs without any hope of resurrection.

I agree, it adds more weight to the words than just some poor guy walking around spouting words to live by.

An Atheist on another board like this one compared what Christ did for us by saying, “so it would be like slamming myself in the foot with a shovel to forgive your mortgages?”

@YARNLADY – Buddhists do not believe that the Buddha was divine, but his words hold a great deal of weight.

@Hobbes The Buddhists teachings are wonderful and can really help a person be at peace with themselves.

@Hobbes Also true of the sayings of Confucius and Socrates, but Christians apparently need the added emphasis.

@Hobbes great answer and avatar. I wish I could give you avatar lurve. (My best friend has the zombified Calvin and Hobbes tattooed on his calf)

We should totally start a Calvin & Hobbes religion. We could have the Calvinball version of the 10 commandments, we could build little snowmen on our alters and when we die, we could go to New Orleans to play Sax in an otherwise all female jazz band (Hobbes definition of Heaven, though it does mesh pretty well with mine).

So far in this thread, I have learned that we can’t necessarily trust that Jesus said the words reported in the Bible, because they are secondhand hearsay. Also I have learned that Heaven and Hell are figurative. Why is it, then, that things such as the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection are taken as literal?

@laureth

There are physical places we will be in that are not in our minds. God lives in a physical place far from Earth. There will be a place for those who do not evolve to a higher form that is also physical but the burning spoken off is the understanding in our minds that we could have made it to evolve and didn’t but it doesn’t last for eternity. There are many things taken litterally and many that you can’t. We cannot take it when we are called sheep that we are sheep. I would say that there are many things you cannot trust completely in the Bible but I didn’t say you couldn’t his words. The question is what are his words?

@JustmeAman – I’m referring to where you say, “His words were given and written to us from others who heard him and were not directly from him.” It seems to imply, since humans are imperfect, that they might have been written as people remember them (or as they wish to remember them), and not necessarily a word-for-word transcription of his words.

How do you know you can take any of it literally? Words, Heaven, virgin, resurrection, anything? It’s still a great story with a great lesson anyway.

@laureth No one can convince you. What I suggest you do is buy a Bible that is easy to read like The Living Bible. You can get one on ebay or amazon, it’s out of print . Then read Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Acts. I love these , esp Acts. Then after reading them, you decide for yourself what you can believe and what you cannot. They were not all written by the same person and I want you to see how similar they are. You will also, by reading them, feel more like you “know” Christ. You will be able to make a decision much more easily by reading what I suggested than by bantering about with these nice folks on fluther. And if you like the books I mentioned, you may eventually want to read the same books by another Bible translation. Then you’ll hopefully see the common thread running through them.
The fact that you’re asking and curious is a sign to me that you are searching and that you have a need to know. And that’s good.

@Aster Oh I do – why do you think I practice Birkam Yoga (in 100 degree heat)
@JLeslie True story
@laureth Because there are as many interpretations of what to take literally and when as there people wanting to be Christians.

@Aster – I got my first Bible when I was a small child, and have read a few versions throughout my life. I assure you, I see the common threads running through them. That is why I ask the questions I do. :)

@JustmeAman Can I ask what religion you specifically identify with? Just Christianity, or do you further define, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Jahovah, etc?

@laureth Ummmm….don’t believe all you read on this thread (or any thread, for that matter)
The Reason For God
7 bucks…worth every dime

@laureth

It is plain and simple find out for yourself. It says “Seek and ye shall find” and “Knock and it will be opened to you”. Here are some verses

Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Matthew 7:8
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Luke 11:9
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Luke 11:10
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

By the way I hate quoting scripture but since it was asked I responded. This is how I found my answers and you would be shocked to know how one can find.

Again, when God sent His only Son to Earth to die for us, they would certainly take precedent over His teachings. But, having said that, after you become His follower, His teachings become a part of who we are in the real World.

@laureth Christianity, as I understand it, is like a buffet. You just pick out the parts you like and ignore the rest. I’ve never met anyone in all my life that believes in all of it and I don’t think I’ve met 2 people who believe in all of the same parts.

@JLeslie

I really don’t take any religion as mine but if you talk about Christianity then I would say the LDS is the closest to reality than are the others. I think all religion is there just to help man along the path of life. It should not control or cause one to fear and it should obey the laws in which they teach and not be hypocritical. Other forms of self awareness are also a great way to find your inner self. I have learned more from Meditation than any other method and I mean deep Beta brain wave meditation though Alpha is also good because that is the good idea brain wave.

@plethora, suffice to say that I am not believing everything on this thread. ;)

Once you get past all the desprate and simpleminded fluff.
You will discover that WE WILL ALL go to “heaven” (in quotes as it is how you see it more then how it really is).

And a great movie to see:
The Man from Earth

@JustmeAman “you would be shocked to know how one can find.” What does this mean if I may ask?

From Genesis to Revelations is God’s Word. One part should not be elevated above another.

Jesus death and resurrection are more important than his words. Or said another way, his death and resurrection gave meaning to his words. Can’t talk about one without the other. He was not just a great teacher. If he did not die and then come back to life, then his words cannot be trusted because he talked a LOT about his death and reserrection.

Because there are quite a few references in the bible that state faith over works.

Ephesians 2:8–9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast.

John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth and the life, nobody comes to the father except through me.”

There are several others I found from my AKJ bible but from being a former church goer these are the 2 used the most by conservative Christian denominations.

Matthew 7:12 “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.” This statement seems to be overruled by the above because our good deeds are considered “dirty rags” in god’s eyes. Unless they are parables than the AKJ bible makes it very clear on the only way to get to heaven. I’m not a bible expert but this stuff seems very confusing to me. These are not my personal opinions, just what I was taught (if you take the bible literally). The bible is very clear on faith having more importance over works.

Actually I typed the above wrong. That is from the NIV I believe. Here they are from an actual Authorized King James Bible (blowing the dust off of it), it must be around a hundred years old since it was my paps when he was younger.

Ephesians 2:8–9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I brought this up instead of the crucifixion and resurrection because the above texts emphasise the importance of faith over works to begin with. If there is doubt to anything in the bible about any topic than the rest falls apart then. This is the real AKJV bible translation to Matthew 7:12.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

I get confused myself with this. There are parts in the bible that mention the importance of works and not sinning while others stress the importance of faith. I’m not sure why there are different bibles as well. Which bible is the most accurate then? Regardless of which bible you read they all seem to mention faith as the way into heaven, not works. It all comes down to believing Jesus died for our sins, the resurrection and crucifixation of Christ are just a smaller example of the much larger issue of faith in general. Denying one thing would be denying everything else.

@Aster

I would say open your heart and mind and seek, knock and ask. It is there for all and not any one person.

I agree, @JustmeAman .

I think the opposite is true. Most Christians have more intense feelings when they celebrate Christmas compared to Easter, because it’s about the joy of his birth, the beginning of his life full revolutionary teachings. But it’s also true that almost all Christian theologians place a greater emphasis on his death, but the reasons for this is more difficult to grasp.

@mattbrowne I think Christmas is more celebrated because it is the more gift giving, families get together, the streets and stores are decorated for weeks, holiday.

Besides marketing.
Christmas is celebrated with greater intensity because we find happiness in celebrating birth then death.

Even though death is a more positive outcome to Christianity.
Us humans cant get past the “spooky logic” of it.

@JLeslie and @ChazMaz – Yes, when we talk about all people. I was talking about real Christians who still have got some interest in the non-commercial aspect of Christmas. Who go to church from time to time. They too have more intense feelings when they celebrate Christmas compared to Easter. Maybe because there’s too much death on tv, both in the news and in movies and series.

@mattbrowne I find that very interesting. I have always wondered why Christmas seems more celebrated when Easter is the higher holy day from what I understand. Now Christmas is so commercialized, I previously was really commenting on that, but you bring up a point that I do find odd. I think because I am Jewish, and the holiday considered the highest holy day, Yum Kippur, is still considered the most religious and spiritual day of the year. A day of atonement, and a day we pray for the dead. Chanukah has now become more commercialized to compete with Christmas, but if a Jewish person is going to go to temple only one day of the year, it will be on Yum Kippur, not Chanukah.

I also think it’s interesting that Easter incorporates probably the largest number of pagan traditions of any of the Christian holidays. The name comes from the Germanic fertility goddess Eostre, who counts the rabbit and the egg among her symbols.

Does Easter incorporate more pagan symbols than Christmas? (the tree, the lights, the star, the candles, the gift giving… all from Yule)

@crazyivan – Good point.

That is funny about Christianity.

They follow the word of God literally. But…

They celebrate the most holiest of days.
On days that were pagan holidays, Not the actual days.
(scripture so true and accurate but can seem to remember the dates of birth and death)
It being it is convenient. And, they still celebrate the pagan traditions as well.