Should his brain have been on display?

Win what case? Which law was broken?

And don’t they have cupboards?

If he died in a car crash why would they need to do an autopsy?

Seek, apparently his parents did not give written authorization for his brain to be displayed for other people(and especially his classmates) to see. i believe these are the grounds for their lawsut. it will interesting to see how this plays out in court.

Well, TBH – the class took a field trip to a morgue. What did they think they were going to see? Bunnies and rainbows?

Any death may be required an autopsy, if the state has a law that requires it. this was in New York. i do not know their law requirements, pertaining to autopsies.

And what does “on display” mean? Was it singled out on some kind of display case, or was it sitting on a shelf with other brains?

don’t say Abbie Normal… don’t say Abbie Normal…

Seek, i agree with the bunnies and rainbows. apparently, seeing their dead friends brain on display was too much of a shocker for them and they did not expect it.

Mrentropy, i cannot answer this question. the article stated that the government waited until an acuumulation of 6 brains was required, before they called the Medical Examiner for all autopsies at once, instead of just one.

Considering that it was a morgue, and assuming there was some kind of legitimate reason for the autopsy, I’d say the case has no merit. It’s not on public display and someone extremely short-sighted at the school decided that a class trip there was a good idea after a tragic death.

If it was out in public, sure, big problem. But it wasn’t and those people chose to be there.

I’m just thinking it’s not the morgue’s responsibility to make sure they’re not working on anyone that any person on a school tour might possibly have known. Perhaps a responsible adult chaperoning the visit should have taken a walk-through first and said “Hey, could you put that away for a bit? We knew that kid.”

Actually, if anything, I would really question the policy of the autopsy. Has the body been buried or cremated yet? Is it holding up a burial? Is there really a reason for it? That part bothers me the most.

Mrentropy, i agree with you. this case will probably come down to the facts. as to whether his parents signed papers giving the morgue authority to use his body parts for medical science or not. i also agree this was a private showing of a select group of people, studying in that field, and should have known what to expect. i think the big issue here was the fact this was the brain of a friend of theirs and they did not expect to see this. was this a law violation? a jury will have to decide the merits of this case, in my opinion.

@john65pennington If the law in the state requires an autopsy, why on earth would there be a permission slip necessary to keep the brain on hand until an autopsy can be performed? It’s not medical science – it’s a morgue, not a research facility.

Having a brain as a specimen to experiment with is a lot different than an autopsy. If the deceased did not donate his brain for that use and the parents did not authorize it, then, yeah, the morgue is totally in the wrong. That’s a whole different ball game.

Seek, the article stated they waited for an accumulation of six brains, so the Medical Examiner could make one trip and examine all 6 at the same time. its to save the government money by examining all 6 and just one trip.

@john65pennington What’s your point?

Like mrentropy stated, if the parents or the victim, did not give the government authority to use this brain for a donated specimen for science, rather than an autopsy, then i also believe the morgue may be liable.

“Medical Examiner”.

not

“Research Professional”.

I haven’t heard anything that even remotely suggests that the brain was doing anything other than waiting to be autopsied by the government employee – the Medical Examiner.

What happened is, the class took a trip, was shocked by seeing a part of someone they knew, and the parents said “We are insulted! We must sue somebody!” because they are Americans and that’s what Americans do, completely ignoring the fact that it was a goddamn morgue.

This clears things up a bit:

“The Shipleys had no idea their son’s brain was removed until his friends and classmates from Port Richmond High School visited a morgue as part of a field trip for the school’s forensic science club.”

So… I have to side with the parents as it doesn’t look like they had the authority to hold on to the brain. It was no longer being held for autopsy, it was just hanging around. And the victim died in 2005.

And it doesn’t look good for the coroner’s office since their request to have the suit tossed out was struck down.

”[W]hile the medical examiner has the statutory authority… to remove and retain bodily organs for further examination and testing in connection therewith, he or she also has the mandated obligation… to turn over the decedent’s remains to the next of kin for preservation and proper burial once the legitimate purposes for the retention of those remains have been fulfilled,” Justice William F. Mastro wrote in the decision.

Here is a link to the story for folks who haven’t seen it.

It seems the legal question revolves around the family’s “right” to have a proper burial. Apparently not having ALL of the pieces and parts makes the burial incomplete. As an autopsy inherently involves removing parts for study (even microscopic slices), ALL the body is never returned.

I regret that I will likely be buried without my wisdom teeth, missing a few bits of tendon that were surgically removed etc. as these bits were never returned to me. I wonder if I can sue somebody? Hmmmm . . .

Just a quick note: Brains are nearly ALWAYS removed in a proper autopsy. The issue here is that the brain wasn’t put back (with the other “loose” organs placed in the abdominal cavity).

Kayak8, thanks for your answer. you have hit on some very good points, concerning “all the pieces of the body”. i am sure the news media will pick up on this and keep us informed.

@john65pennington The news media has already picked up on this story.

I see this story as unfortunate. I think whoever planned this field trip shortly after the death of a student should have his or her head examined (preferably before death). Other than that, I agree completely with @Seek_Kolinahr‘s points.

There’s no case if the organs were donated. If this is true, I agree with @Seek_Kolinahr, They were going to a local morgue, they shouldn’t expect bunnies and rainbows.

The organs were not donated.

Thanks for the link, @Kayak8.

I fault nearly everyone in this travesty.

The Medical Examiner doesn’t need to wait “months” to “accumulate enough brains” to call for a travelling analyst. If it’s important to do the analysis at all—and if they’re waiting “months”, then I can hardly see how they justify its importance—then they can have a low-cost employee drive the brain to the analyst’s lab, and then drive back to pick it up again later. That preserves custody-of-evidence if the results are ever required in a court case, and preserves the dignity of the deceased while saving money as much as practical. (Not “as much as possible”, because there’s also UPS and FedEx, but that’s not “practical”.)

I fault the kids on the field trip, who went apeshit when they saw brains in a jar. (I loved @Seek_Kolinahr‘s rejoinder.) And worse, that they felt the need to tell the victim’s sister and get her all upset.

I fault the family of the victim for acting in such high dudgeon, outrage and hysteria (as evidenced by the sister’s collapse at the news, and exacerbated by their later actions).

I fault the teacher who thought that a field trip to a morgue would be a good idea, especially within a couple of months of a classmate’s violent death. The trip itself isn’t a bad idea, but they could have waited a bit longer.

I fault the morgue for having identifiable remains of anyone in a place where they are visible to the public. For Christ’s sake, even supermarket stockboys are familiar with bar-coding technology these days—can’t anyone use a bar-code printer, scanner and database on such sensitive materials? Or keep them away from all members of “the general public”?

And last, and probably least, the fucking priest who considers it “not a proper burial” that has to be redone. Fuck him. I hope his body ends up in a thousand pieces after his death.

Does anyone have any sense any more?