Where are all the gay klingons?
In star trek, how comes you never see any stereotypical gay klingons? I thought star trek was all about equality and morality.
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That is an interesting question considering how far ahead of his time Gene Roddenberry was. Yet, in the 60s, while race was a talked about issue, homosexuality really wasn’t. It would be a natural outgrowth of Roddenberry’s principles fro some of the later series to have dealt with it.
Especially because it is accepted in a lot of science fiction and fantasy. Mercedes Lackey, for example.
@poisonedantidote
Who’s to say you DIDN’T see any stereotypically gay Klingons? Who’s to say that any of those Kingon females were really…well…you know…female?
Also, because Klingons never had anything as silly as DADT, the mannerisms of the heterosexual Klingon warrior never varied from the homosexual Klingon warrior. In fact, given the vigorous physical nature – and potential harm – of the Klingon mating ritual, the gay Klingons are often the most physically capable in battle.
I may have overthought this…
b-e-s-t • q-u-e-s-t-i-o-n • e-v-e-r
Oh, please. Klingons on a whole dress up like leather drag queens, drink wine, go to the opera, and quote Shakespeare.
I’m sure the first homosexual experience for a young Klingon is about two steps before his first fight with a Kolar Beast as a requirement to attain status as a Warrior.
If you ever saw a Kilngon butthole you would know why!
Would it not make sense that with the technological advancements they, as well as the federation has.
That disposition would be filtered out or adjusted for optimal functionality.
@ChazMaz you could be on to something. there is an episode where they do kind of deal with the subject. the one where commander riker falls for that genderless alien who has a condition that makes ‘it’ want to be a female, and they change ‘it’ so it does not want to be female anymore.
Thats like asking “How many real men does it take to screw in a light bulb?”. The answer NONE because real men aren’t afraid of the dark. There would be no gay Klingons.
They were too disruptive. All the other straight Klingons fell under their sway and were no longer interested in female Klingons. As a result, they became a rather poor foil for Captain Kirk. So, in the best interests of the show, the gay Klingons were distributed to other shows, such as Will and Grace.
There aren’t any. They wouldn’t be seen dead in those outfits darling! I mean, yukky poo!
@wundayatta
Ahh – THAT explains the change in uniform and the forehead bone ridges between TOS and TNG!
What’s a ‘stereotypical gay’?
@ChazMaz : That disposition would be filtered out or adjusted for optimal functionality.
Right. Gays can’t fight and die for their country or planet like gay men and women have done in Iraq and are now doing in Afghanistan.
I don’t think we should turn this into a debate regarding the civil rights of gay Klingons…
“Right. Gays can’t fight and die for their country or planet”
That having nothing to do with the question. And what @iamthemob said.
Maybe a stereotypically gay Klingon is the opposite of a stereotypically gay human. Maybe they’re extra tough and regularly lead the head ships into glorious space battle. Maybe that’s why there aren’t any left.
I bet Alexander was gay but since he’s only ¾ Klingon, I’m not sure if he counts.
I actually don’t recall seeing a single reference to homosexuality in Star Trek at all (discounting fanfiction of course). Which is a real shame. I’d love to see some sexual tension between the Kirk/Spock/McCoy trio.
@downtide: So with you there. Both generations. At once.
@downtide
Next Generation – the episode where Beverley falls in love with a male Trill, who dies, then the symbiont is transferred to a female host. That’s the first reference to homosexuality I can think of in Trek. Beverley tried to keep up the relationship at the behest of her beloved, but ultimately had to admit that she was not comfortable in a romantic relationship with another female.
Same kind of thing happened with Jadzia Dax on Deep Space Nine – she met the lover (wife?) of one of Dax’s prior male hosts. That took off a little better, but I never saw the end of that episode (anyone know what happened?)
I, too, admittedly can’t think of any male/male pairings.
There is no translation for “gay” or “homosexual” in the Klingon language. The concept doesn’t exist until there is a word to encapsulate it. Neither Vulcan or Romulan are knowledgeable of the concept. It may be an “earth human only” concept.
@Seek_Kolinahr I’d forgotten both of those. Thankyou for reminding me.
@downtide: True dat, they certainly are, but Leonard Nimoy was certainly yummy in his day. ;)
@Seek_Kolinahr: I don’t think those would be considered homosexual because they were the latent feelings of the symbiants who are sexless. I also have a feeling that Trill feelings of homosexuality are very different because of this. We often hear of the Trills being in husband and wife relationships but since the symbiants don’t stay in one sex of Trill, I’d be willing to bet that there are a whole bunch of homosexual relationships between Trills with symbiants which is only about 10% of the Trill population.
Also, in that episode, I believe Jadzia and the other women end up spending a night together and then parting ways without telling anybody but I can’t remember too well. I’ll ask my mom, she has the whole series on DVD.
Never enough reasons to use this. So I’m throwing it in here. ^_^
Maybe Klingons are, by nature, ambisexual, so there would be no reason to differentiate. It would explain the passion for opera, the oufits and their willingness to mate with other species. Of course, it seems in the Trek universe, all the humanoids are willing to mate with other species. Is there a Ferengi-anything hybrid out there? Or does the Roddenbury crew practice height-ism?
@Seek_Kolinahr ; Gratuitous Spocking! Shame on you ! <sigh>
@JilltheTooth: You know, the only Dax that had trouble was the shortest…
because most of the Klingon’s we see are in the warrior class… I think don’t ask don’t tell is still in effect there….seeing its the military…. we need to know if Garon is gay…
@Seek_Kolinahr Commander Riker fell in love with a member of a race of trans-gendered people on an away mission…and she/he got arrested and sent to a re-training center…
...
The Outcast’ – Androgyny – Asexual Life
When Commander Will Riker (Jonathan Frakes) works closely with an alien named Soren (Melinda Culea) of the J’naii race, he learns Soren’s people have no gender – no male nor female – they are androgynous. Soon, Soren expresses romantic interest in Riker and explains that in J’naii society to take on a gender is a crime, however confesses to him that she feels she was born a true female. Riker engages in sexual relations with Soren, but J’naii officials discover Soren’s crime and she’s imprisoned. A now enraged Riker goes to break out his new love from confinement, however when he meets Soren again, the gender mindset and feelings for him have been banished by a psychological treatment. Riker sadly leaves the androgynous world alone.
It’s a wonderfully effective episode, with great acting performances. It proves quite sympathetic for Cmdr. Riker. From his Imzadi Counselor Troi, to Soren, he never seems to be able to hold on to love. What seems a bit convenient is Soren’s transformation into a proper and law abiding member of J’naii society. Although, it can be argued that this is a strong metaphor for our own world. Soren now lives a life society wants for her, demands for her, much the way many homosexual men or lesbian women live a life of lies, for fear of rejection from friends and family for being different.
@talljasperman
The Outcast is an excellent episode, and never fails to make me cry like a baby at the injustice in the universe.
however, I don’t think that could be considered “homosexuality”, as Soren was without biological sex, though she was female by gender. It was a great reverse metaphor for the plight of the transgendered, but I don’t think it’s homosexuality. Soren was a straight female who happened to be asexual.
On a (barely) related note, The Left Hand of Darkness by Urula K LeGuin is an interesting look at an androgynous society.
@talljasperman
I don’t see how you figure the Klingons even would have DADT. They are warriors – NOT soldiers.
I think something like DADT would actually be based on a dishonesty for all involved that the Klingons would find “withOUT honor.”
Has nobody found any gay klingon slash fanfic yet? There must be some out there!
@downtide I’m shocked that I’m having an incredibly hard time finding any. Still working on it.
Found a Data/Lore lemon that looks like it could be interesting…
@Seek_Kolinahr I found a few involving Worf, but none involving him with another Klingon.
Lo and behold! There are gay Klingons in the official novels!
Star Trek: Enterprise – “Kobiyashi Maru” – There is a gay Klingon couple.
Star Trek: Vanguard series – a Klingon covert operative surgically altered to pass as a human, has an affair with a male human.
That’s it, folks – It’s there in writing, approved by Paramount and Simon and Schuster.
This thread has got all my “nerd-mones” tingling! I love it!
@Seek_Kolinahr awesome! I bow to your superior Trekkish research skills!
gay klingons would be considered weak and be killed as soon as they came out of the closet
I disagree @wesdavis. Gay does not equate with weak. Female Klingons are also warriors, they are not considered weak by any means. I see no reason to suggest that a gay Klingon would be any less affective in battle than any other hetero Klingon, be them male or female.
@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: I kinda figure the Klingons don’t really care. The only reason women leave combat is because they get pregnant. I would think gay Klingons would be more valuable because they would never have to leave the ship they were serving on to support their own children. Though I’m not sure how the Klingons would feel about adoption.
@KatawaGrey Worf’s brother was adopted after his parents were killed in battle. The family simply took him home, and they had a new son.
They’re all saying YES I AM for National Coming Out Day.
One thing I like about Klingon culture – they don’t abuse the paper trail. ^_^
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