Is Ocasio-Cortez the Right's Trump?

I do believe that there is a difference between using phrases that you need a dictionary to find out their meaning, and “grab them by the pussy”.

She may be the right’s Trump in the sense that the right doesn’t regard her seriously as a threat. But then again, neither the right nor the left took Trump seriously as a representative of conservative politics. If you set Trump down in front of you, there isn’t a chance in hell that you could extract from him a sensible explanation of conservatism or liberalism for that matter. And the Dems have allowed the right to coast for so long that as they were with Bernie, they no longer know what to make of a genuine leftist.

Personally, I would like her to rein herself in a bit and learn more about politics before mouthing off. She may have good (and bad) ideas but she is grandstanding far too much for a new Congressperson.

In terms of the fact that the media is paying way too much attention to her, she is a parallel to Trump but not necessarily in other ways.

It is refreshing to have someone openly espouse progressive ideas. Since she is consistent and articulate and generally truthful, she is nobody’s Trump. A little colorful language to call attention to the progressive agenda is perfectly fine.

She is good. Real good.

She’s not their Trump. She’s their replacement for the soon-to-retire Pelosi. A new bogeyman for a new era.

Pelosi is staying on for four years.

Which is no time at all in politics. The Republicans know that they’re going to be losing their current bogeyman, so it makes sense for them to start building up a new one. This isn’t a knock against Ocasio-Cortez, nor is it any reason to for Democrats to be wary of supporting her. It’s just a fact about how electoral politics works.

Do I misunderstand it, or should it read “the Left’s Trump”?

I think @rebbel has a point in that she is maybe Trump on the left, which makes her Trump for the right also. She is the immature wild child on the left, similar to Trump on the right, and then there is the reaction from the opposing sides with each of them.

She has less power than Trump though. The only reason she is being heard so much by the public is because the media has chosen to show her; to give her air time. I guess in that way she is like Trump also when he was first running for president. She just as easily could have been covered much less by the media, and other congressmen would be saying, “yeah, she’s new, wild eyed, eager, but she’ll learn how it works around here,” and the public would be barely aware of her.

I don’t see her rising to a top position so fast, but I’ve been wrong before. I like new ideas and someone willing to challenge the status quo, but in some ways she has been disrespectful to the establishment, and the females who have paved the way deserve some respect.

What @JLeslie said. Exactly.

As a female in politics, some of what she says makes me cringe, but I admire her passion.

I meant it more language technical.
Like you can compare Tiger Woods with Roger Federer if you want to state that Woods is a gentleman.
You would say: “Woods is the Federer of golf”, and not “Woods is the Federer of tennis”
Above it reads, in my opinion, “Ocasio is the Trump of the right”.
But Trump is the Trump of the right, she’s a lefty.

@rebbel I agree with you. I would have worded it as you said if I were creating the question.

Well, thanks for your wording advice, guys, but I know what I meant. In this context, “Trump” means “politician whose every statement is blown out of proportion”. The Left obsesses negatively over Trump and everything he says, the Right does the same thing with Ocasio-Cortez.

And yes, the wording of this question is a little silly on purpose.

You’re welcome, though it was not meant as advice, from my side.
I was merely wondering if I maybe misunderstood it (and build on that wonder by saying how I thought it could be worded (in my misunderstood way)).
I guess I didn’t notice the sillyness hidden in it :-)

Seems to me that “run train on progressive ideas” is exactly the opposite of what she means, so I’m confused. However, compared to rants from the right, including trump, that comment is PG, at the most.

@Demosthenes I wasn’t giving advice either. I understood the meaning of the Q as it was written. It wasn’t written incorrectly, I just meant it could probably be written either way, and the way written the emphasis was on the reaction by opposite side, which I think is what you wanted.

I think @rebbel speaks English as a second language, although his English is pretty perfect, but anyway that is why I responded to what he stated.

@JLeslie If “maturity” means selling out the American people to big business like the Democratic establishment and the Republicans alike have done—producing a culture of political apathy that lead to Trump, then all I can say is I can’t wait for more “immature wild child[ren] on the left” to kick these corrupt scumbags to the curb like AOC did to Joe Crowley.

@janbb “She may have good (and bad) ideas but she is grandstanding far too much for a new Congressperson.”
I think this is completely moronic analysis. She has ignited and inspired millions of people. Falling in line behind the incompetent leadership of the DNC like Pelosi, Schumer, Feinstein, etc. would be a major betrayal to those that elected her to office because they wanted her to make changes. If she speaks out and tries to push things forward people will criticize her for being too loud for freshman congressperson, if she doesn’t speak out, then she’ll be criticized for not doing enough.

This whole thing comes down to the mainstream media’s right-wing bias.

I rather agree with @janbb. Although I really like the woman a great deal, she needs to just sit quietly for a while, test the waters before plunging in.

@Dutchess_III What the fuck will that accomplish?

It will allow her to make sure she has her bearings and priorities right and to be sure she fully understands her responsibilities.
It would be like me going in to the first day of a new job and tearing everything apart, right off the bat, without fully understanding how it all works.

@Dutchess_III She was elected precisely because her constituents are sick of “how it all works.” Her job is to “make it all work” very differently. Most politicians spend all day calling rich people and companies asking for campaign contributions. She pointed out that her freshman orientation class was cohosted by a corporate lobbying group. The system is broken, we know what the problem is, it’s money in politics that has infected both parties. She doesn’t need to stand around with her thumb in her ass for however many years you guys think is necessary before rolling up her sleeves to start fixing the problem.

No! The gorilla is correct. The reason the right is so batshit crazy is because the Democrats have foisted the illusion that dems are the party of the left. If you’re looking for compromise, you’re going to need a sizable portion of your followers to be GENUINE leftists, and making the appropriate noises. This country never progressed more quickly than during those days when the Weathermen and black panthers were raising hell.

As I said,.I do like her and I never meant to suggest she stand around with her thumb up her ass for years before doing something. But if that’s the direction you want to take it, have fun. I’m going to the laundry mat.

@Dutchess_III Oh no, no washer and dryer at home either through this? I’d move out! haha

It’s for a king size comforter. No, trust me. The washer, dryer and steam cleaner are working their butts off!

She was elected for some of the same reasons Trump was and her extreme ideological and idiotic/naive positions are the “love to hate” fuel the opposition needs to keep things stirred up, polarized and eyes on Fox news. It’s almost as if it was scripted.

@ARE_you_kidding_me: “and her extreme ideological [positions]”

Popular (as in majority of the country) positions are considered “extreme”. M4A, 70% marginal tax rate, etc.

She is as large – or larger – a threat to the Democratic establishment than she is to Republicans. They’re being forced to give lip service to things that go against the donor class. Like Bernie, she is moving the overton window and changing the conversation.

The majority of the country do not support her positions and are opposed to them. She does tickle the fancy of anti-establishment liberals, especially younger ones. She is not so much changing the conversation as she is deepening the polarization and diminishing the quality of the discourse between the left and right. We need to be moving closer and not further apart. Poor girl is a pawn in the game of keeping the public in team sports and not working together to solve problems objectively.

@ARE_you_kidding_me: “The majority of the country do not support her positions and are opposed to them.”

Even if that were true, that doesn’t mean she isn’t correct and should be trying to convince them. But since a majority means > 50%, I suspect you’re just ill-informed. “Extreme” stuff indeed. :)

Numbers like that from media sources are in no way trust worthy. That said… I have no problem with serious, deep and far reaching health-care reform provided it addresses the obscene cost and not “how we will pay for it.” The 70% tax rate um, no. I seriously doubt that the “majority of Americans” support it. Here is the thing, it’s not where the money is. The real money is raising taxes on the middle class and they are the real target and not the “rich.” A 70% tax hike on the minority of big earners is not really a drop in the bucket. I don’t believe for a second that it will help, it’ll only hurt the middle class who can’t afford to hide their cash or leave when it inevitably falls on their shoulders.

@ARE_you_kidding_me – Ok, so you’re going with your gut, rather than the only thing we have to measure public opinion. Not much we can talk about.

By the way, it’s 70% marginal tax rate over $10 mil. Go find someone who doesn’t support this. If you can, you might be surrounding yourself with rich assholes. 70% is too low. It’s a good number because it was reasonable and would be easy to gain support.

A 70% tax rate on roughly 16,000–20,000 Americans. That’s a 70% tax rate on the excess over 10 million. It’s lip service. Higher tax rates will be felt by the middle class to support her approach to these policies when it’s all said and done. Thing is, the “support” is not in the means, it’s in the ends. I support an energy moonshot, healthcare reform and inequality reduction. If I was a politician the former two would be my main focus. I just don’t think her approach is feasible. I’m not alone either.

I agree with @gorillapaws and @stanleybmanly. People are tired of status quo. This is why Trump was elected. We need a firecracker on the left. She might make mistakes but people are taking notice. This is the only type of person who will take down Trump in 2020. I follow the politics here in Madison, WI where there are Bernie stickers still stuck to many bumpers. I read what these people have to say on social media. They all agree the Tulsi Gabbards will lose us the election.

*When I say us I mean anyone who wants Trump out of office.

(Answering the OP and ignoring the bickering above me). Yes, I think AOC is the Right’s punching bag. I’m actually okay with that. As a conservative-leaning centrist I do not agree with all of the left wing points of view, I like her quite a bit and I’m okay with her being under scrutiny. If she can act as a good charasmatic spokesperson and leader (with time, as @Dutchess_III points out) then perhaps they can push through some things I do agree with like Medicare for all, decreased defense spending, gun control, and increased education funding.

@gorillapaws By maturity I only meant that her manner needs to evolve a little. Bernie went up against the big business, stale government, status quo, but he did it with more “maturity” in my opinion.

Well Sanders is about a million years older than she is.

@JLeslie Are there specific actions you object to?

@JLeslie more mature? The man’s older than dirt, which shows you the state of leftist politics in this country. If a geriatric man is compelled to pick up the standard generally reserved for youth in every revolutionary movement I ever read about, you can just guess what our chances are of reversing the trends defining our galloping plutocracy.

Not old, mature. Young people can act maturely. Trump is old and he often acts immaturely.

@gorillapaws I mean I prefer she doesn’t swear when she knows she’s talking to a crowd. She seems to me to be a little too full of herself, she’s getting lots of media attention, so I’m sure that exciting to her. I’m ok with some shake up in Congress, don’t get me wrong about that.

I am more center than she is, but some of her progressive ideas I’m in agreement with, but I don’t think they are going to happen any time soon. Most will have to wait for a Democrat to be in the White House, so for now, I think not brustling more conservative people (I’m including moderate Democrats) in Congress would be better played.

Make friends, observe, see how things happen. Once armed with that information she will be better positioned to push through change. Starting a new job like you think you know everything and know better doesn’t usually work well.

With the 2020 presidential election approaching, Democrats need to think about the direction of the party. Ocasio-Cortez is opening up that discussion. I so hope that Biden is not nominated.

I will be very surprised if the Democratic nominee is not another septuagenarian. We seem to like our politicians in their 70s, if the 2016 election and the talk of Warren, Biden, and Sanders is any indicator.

I am more concerned about political leanings than age. Choosing Sanders or Warren would be a move to the left. Biden would be more of the same. As a freshman, Ocasio-Cortez does not have the experience yet to run for president, but she could have an influence on who gets chosen.

The age thing is interesting. Warren and Sanders still seem to have all of their wits while trump has definitely lost quite a bunch…but he still managed to get elected.

Ocasio-Cortez isn’t 20. Just to be clear, I was never talking about her age.

There is one BIG advantage to being in your 70s. And it is simply that you lived through the period when America was on the uptick. Sanders is from an age when socialism was openly discussed in academia, and all of us were products of an advanced education without massive debt. The lessons and memories stuck with Sanders and Warren. Trump has just enough sense to appreciate that things have changed, but anything beyond the most superficial skimming of causes or solutions is outside his skill set.

You know, I think there is such a thing as being SO rich that you don’t notice any economic changes, just like there is such a thing as being so poor that something like the great depression doesn’t even affect you.

I agree. But when you think about it, it must be a blessing to be born into millions yet deprived of the means to reflect on the inequities involved.

@stanleybmanly I agree, but why was Bernie going the route of free college education for all? It was too extreme in my opinion. If he had talked about a time when college costs were reasonable and wanting to get back to that so the majority of students graduated without debt I think the entire country would have been on board. Even if some of it was subsidized by government.

EVERYTHING Bernie talked about horrified the conservatives.

@Dutchess_III It was so extreme it worried a lot of Democrats and Independents too. That was the bigger problem then the republicans being worried. Some independents liked it, but that was not because they were moderate, but because they were more socialist or some were very green, etc.

JLeslie He said it because it is more than possible and actually exists in places with far fewer resources than our own. The idea is only extreme if you believe those who are hauling away all the profits from that student debt?

@Dutchess_III Except mg legalization. Some Reps are all for it, the religious sometimes aren’t. But all the college students and stoners in our area were all about the Bernster! haha

The thing to understand about every one of the perils currently afflicting the middle class; college unaffordability, crippling healthcare and pharmaceutical expenses, skyrocketing housing prices, you name it—all of them are a direct reflection of the shift of responsibility from the people of wealth to people who work. And like it or not, that shift was facilitated and could not have arrived otherwise without the enthusiastic participation of the Democratic Party. Warren & Sanders both know it.

@stanleybmanly I think he should have talked about the profits and where tuition is ridiculously inflated, and just that would have been better. Again, talk about lowering the cost of education.

My dad went to college for free both undergrad and his PhD, so believe me I support free, or very inexpensive tuition, but I really didn’t see how we can afford to give it to everyone for free, but maybe I didn’t listen to the details enough. Moreover, when my dad went to undergrad for free, he was accepted in with the cream of the crop so to speak academically who apply to that college, who were poor, the city didn’t just fund any person who wanted to go to college who lived in the city. His PhD, like many of his friends, were federal grants that specifically targeting professions they needed in the country at the time.

The talk in the country now is needing a college degree is like needing a high school diploma 40 years ago, and it just always sounds to me like people are too idealistic about every student being able to get through college, or wanting to go.

I firmly believe in giving every young adult the opportunity to go to college if they have the desire and can do the work. Money should not prevent themfrom getting a college education, but if they aren’t suited for college, I don’t want my tax dollars being spent on it.

Funny thing about those impossible expenses preventing the establishment of tuition free higher education. They were exactly the same excuses whipped up when free public schools were proposed for America. They are exactly the same arguments dogging our lack of universal healthcare. And yet we sit in this country and watch stupidly as other advanced nations with one tenth our resources leave us in the dust as their citizens’ standards of living advance while ours slide South toward the bankruptcy courts. The situation in this country is one of accelerating crisis, and to my mind it is due in the main to the systemic failure to school the people living here in the fundamentals of civic education. Even the “educated” portion of our population is woefully deficient in its knowledge of the history of the society it inhabits or the workings of its government. And the doings and functioning of the rest of the world is virtually beyond the scope of all but a few elite individuals or the lucky few who are forced to travel and live outside our stupidly insular country.

^^I’m just saying where Bernie might have lost some people. If he had become president and been able to make free tuition work, then that’s great.

I don’t see college education exactly the same as K-12 or healthcare when it comes to offering it for free. I also wonder how the highly socialized countries will be doing in 20 years. Part of me wants more social systems and part of me worries about too much of it. You have to have a government you can trust and who are fiscally realistic for a very socialized system, and our politicians become more and more untrustworthy.

With the introduction of public grade schools, the cry went up that there should be no extension of such foolishness to secondary (high school) education on the same grounds. And the way things are going, you should be much more worried about us than anyone in Europe. Just as with healthcare there are powerful entrenched interests in this country that would prefer that such things as tuition free higher education not be even discussed. At the forefront of this thinking are of course limited government libertarians and those convinced that the elimination of the public sector to be our road to salvation.

^^You keep answering me like I have huge concerns about Bernie’s policies, but I’m mostly talking about being able to get the votes. Not just my vote, but the majority.

I am worried about our country.

I am not a libertarian, I want socialized healthcare, but I think some people idealize socialized Europe.

My German friend complain about tax money going to new immigrants, they complain about supporting Europe, the complain that Europeans are lazier workers than Americans, etc. it’s not just conservative Americans who talk like this.