Trump suggests that he will cut benefits to Social Security and Medicare. How can his fan base be in favor of these measures?

According to the Maga Maniacs that I’ve spoken to that is just propaganda made up by the left & that he wouldn’t do that to those who voted for him. “Entitlement” is a rw buzz word where NOBODY listens to what is said after “entitlement”. Reagan raped the system & now they blame it on the Dems because it’s going broke.

He made a joke once, something about that he could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and fire a gun or something like that, and his fans would still love him. He knows best! No matter all the things he’s said and done, they defend everything passionately. It’s like a cult.

<<Getting popcorn

Abortion and immigration.

If you don’t know anyone on disability who is clearly able to work or works FT under the table, you may not understand what he means.

Because they think that they will be unaffected, and that only their political enemies and those they consider their inferiors will be subjected to those cuts. They earned and deserve those benefits, it is the others that are the moochers.
Remember the principle they operate under: “tread on them, not on me”.
Just like those countless conservative women, who were in favour of banning abortion, then act surprised that it also affects them, when they need an abortion.

@jca2 like a cult? Trumpers are very much a cult!

I don’t defend any crooked dealings by either of them. I just want a person who has demonstrated he wants to stop illegal entry. I think all are crooked to varying degrees.

They are definitely self serving to varying degrees.

REAL MAGA just “get more jobs!”

Maybe they can join Trump’s new personal army.

Besides, Trump can just declare most diseases to be fake news and left-wing hoaxes.

I wonder how many people from any side of the political spectrum know that Social Security doesn’t take any money from the budget. It’s self funded by our deductions.

I know people who think there shouldn’t be social security. They want use of their money, they believe they believe they can save and invest for themselves, and some of them view receiving regular SS as just bonus money like discretionary income.

As far as disability a lot of people think the system is abused, but then keep in mind they are often the same people who are vocal about the VA being inadequately and talk about caring for our disabled military men and women. Keep in mind most people who use the VA are overall happy with the service.

I think he worded it poorly on a number of fronts. First, SS and Medicare are not entitlements. He shouldn’t have been suckered in with the gotcha question. Of course that also shows how CNBC views these programs. Secondly, I don’t disagree that there are benefits that could be cut that wouldn’t impact the elderly. Third I agree that there is waste and fraud in both of these programs. If something isn’t done soon these programs will be broke before all those younger that about 65 right now won’t see much of the money they put into these programs all those years they worked.

I disagree with how he stated it since he really didn’t categorize how to cut the programs since he didn’t give any real substance to qualify it. That could mean cut some of the programs that we are floating that aren’t for seniors, it could mean cutting what seniors get, it could mean any number of things.

Republicans always want to make cuts to Medicare and Social Security. That said, doing so is very unpopular, so they must always walk it back and deny, deny, deny when they let it slip that this is a goal of theirs. As to whether it will actually happen, again, it’s unpopular so probably not in the way we’d imagine. But it does seem to be a fundamental part of their ideology and the idea is floated and hinted at every now and then. The negative reaction to these hints is always the same.

What do want to bet he redirects that money to pay for his penalties for E. Jean Carrol or his New York State fraud payments . . . such a F%&KING conman and liar.

welcome back @Aster :)

I’m a conservative Republican. I paid into Social Security/Medicare from age 16 to 65. I’ve done very well in business and the stock market.

I don’t need Social Security or Medicare..

I think that Social Security and Medicare should be given only to those who need it. I started collecting Social Security payments at 70 mainly to help to pay for my taxes.

I think that it’s a good idea to not pay Social Security to millionaires. Don’t you?

??? Is this a real question? They are self hating pieces of shit who will support him no matter what he says. He will end America. They want him to.

As policy, fucking the old is an unpopular, albeit effective, method of balancing the budget. I think he was being normal serious. We have reached the pointed where the most exploited group will be his own people, because they are the least likely to object.

I think his followers would mail Trump their genitals if he asked.

I think S.S. could be redesigned to help keep it financially safe, but even trying to talk about it is poison.

Once they realise they’re on the receiving end of said measures they’ll simply blame Biden/Democrats.
No way they’ll ever admit ‘defeat’, or being fucked by their Fuhrer.
The 5th Avenue shooting scenario won’t even turn them away from him.
Hell, he’ll even might do it, to prove his point.
Delusional…

His fan base isn’t exactly renowned for their critical thinking skills.

I think he’d really like to start his own benefit systems Truth Social Security or Trumpcare. Of course he’d be the one who benefits.

I think he worded it poorly on a number of fronts. First, SS and Medicare are not entitlements.

Social Security is an entitlement. Medicare is an entitlement. They are absolutely the most common programs referenced in the USA when anyone refers to “entitlements”.

They are entitlements because the amount of spending does not have a specific dollar figure cap set by Congress. Spending is spelled out by law as a duty for the government to pay according to a formula. It goes up and down according to need or “entitlement”, not by Congressional appropriations.

Congressional Budget Office – “Mandatory—or direct—spending includes spending for entitlement programs and certain other payments to people, businesses, and state and local governments. Mandatory spending is generally governed by statutory criteria; it is not normally set by annual appropriation acts. Outlays for the nation’s three largest entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid) and for many smaller programs (unemployment compensation, retirement programs for federal employees, student loans, and deposit insurance, for example) are mandatory spending.

@gondwanalon I’m a conservative Republican…I don’t need Social Security or Medicare..

I think that Social Security and Medicare should be given only to those who need it. I started collecting Social Security payments at 70 mainly to help to pay for my taxes.

I’m a left-of-left Democrat, and I want Social Security and Medicare for all, regardless of need. It maintains the popularity of the programs among voters.

Thank you for your civic-mindedness. Smarts and hard work can lead to success, but good fortune and natal advantages are important, too.

@gondwanalon We shouldn’t pay out SS to millionaires? I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand, you are right, they don’t need it. On the other hand, you were not given a choice to give into the programs. They took your money on the promise it would be there for you when you retired. If you are forced to give into it but aren’t allowed to collect it because they decide you did to well in life, then they are creating a way to just steal your money. Let’s say they put the cutoff at millionaire. You can’t collect if you are worth $1M. You know how these things work: that would move down to $500k, then down to $250k and so on. Eventually they’d just take everyone’s money and throw it into the general fund since no one would “need” it.

There has been a proposed fix to Social Security which would result in its being solvent for many years. If they drop the annual income limit at which payments need to made, it would result in extra income to SS. It would seem to be a no brainer but I don’t even know if there’s legislation proposed about this.

They’re entitlements. You’re ENTITLED to them, they’re not supposed to be able to be taken away. Military Vets are entitled to healthcare for life in the same way. That doesn’t make them “entitled brats” as some people have associated the word.

Also worth noting. Biden famously claimed to be willing to cut Social Security and then straight up lied about it to the American people in his debate with Bernie Sanders.

@gorillapaws Except military vets are NOT entitled to healthcare for life. I’m a perfect example. In fact, unless you have a disability that can be traced back to your time in the service, you have a very limited income you can receive before you are disqualified for those medical benefits. It’s something like $37,000/yr/family. $37k is just above poverty level.

Another difference between SS and Medicare and other entitlements is that other entitlements did not require you to pay into them to be eligible. SS and Medicare are funded by taking money from every working person in the country on the promise that they will have benefits later on, when they need them.

@seawulf575 I recently checked mine and from 1981–2023 mine is $1374 per month if I retire at 65 yrs old.
Disability would be $1655 per month.
Survivor benefit no more than $2635.

Imagine the government taking that from what WE earned for any reason. Ridiculous. I worry about it since Obama said to use IRA and 401k to make sure you have something. :(

Wulf. I’m afraid your back injury was NOT service related!~

Yeah. My father reached 100% disability about 20 years ago.
Before that, he was like 30%, and had to work full-time.
This was less than ideal, as my father was shot multiple times in Vietnam. He was “wounded” December 22nd, 1966.

He had to go through dozens of health problems, that weren’t cheap. And life, is a struggle anyways.
He had really bad nightmares, and would occasionally wake from a dream swinging.

From 1966-the mid 90’s, my father had a rough time.
He was able to remain working for the ARMY. Eventually retired with a 30 year Civil Service pin.

I remind him often, that the Vietnamese likely had little to no government help after the conflict.
But it’s unfortunate that the US couldn’t have done a better job taking care of him.
He doesn’t say much. But when he talks, there’s a chance he might bring up his time in that war. He NEVER left the war.
Having been with him at the VA Hospital all his life I met countless men like him.

I wish there was not so much conflict all of the time.

@KNOWITALL Take a moment to look to see how much you have put into SS. If they cut it, THAT is the amount they are taking from you…have already taken from you to support the Ponsi scheme.

@MrGrimm888 I’m not begrudging any injured vet medical care. They need it and deserve it. Thankfully I’m in good health (what about my back?) and don’t need a lot of medical care. I get by on ibuprofen and Tums. That’s about all I really need. Originally, if I’m not mistaken, when the VA was founded, it was free medical for ALL veterans. But that quickly got qualified and has been quietly shrinking ever since. I don’t want to see this same thinking be applied to SS and Medicare. Unfortunately that is how bureaucrats think. It is too much effort to find the holes in the system that are leading to fraud and waste so they just change what they are going to pay out for everyone.

^I have to give you you’re due respect, in this matter.
You risked dying in a Submarine, for your country.
I would prefer if our country took better care of people like you.

I’m currently on disability, still healing from my transplant, and it’s not remotely a living wage.
I’m 43, so I guess I haven’t paid much into the system. But. I participated as required.
I plan on returning to the workforce soon, but if I survive long enough I’ll need some type of social security help again…

Without the help, I can’t say exactly how it would be possible even to struggle mightily as I do.

I can’t imagine how many people would be completely destitute without assistance. Our homeless problem is already embarrassing, for a country with our “integrity.”

It’s sad to say, but I’d rather die than have to live on the streets until I die anyway. Floods have made me temporarily homeless before.

And yes, if it the government does away with it, it would have been 100% a scheme.

@Seawulf575 Our seniors/disabled deserve better housing they can’t afford, and our VA here is getting better but still not good care for our vets.

^My mother was a social worker at the VA. She has a 35 year pin.

Here in Charleston, there is a sizeable homeless population.
I don’t have the exact stats, but a decent amount of them are vets.
The homeless shelter is nearby.

As beautiful as this city is, and it’s like paradise, the area has homeless people sleeping on historical monuments and parks. Sleeping bags, shopping carts, and needles.

Call it socialism. But I wish we could get these people off of the streets. It doesn’t help that average rent is astronomical.

Bottom line. If the American government doesn’t take care of it’s people, they aren’t taking care of their bosses. The people.
A democracy is supposed to serve it’s people.

If our people are a reflection of the quality of our democracy, there are many flaws with our government.

@KNOWITALL I did get 2 VA loans. One for my first house, the second for the refi on this one (which is now paid off). VA doesn’t give the loans, though. The mortgage company does. The VA just guarantees the loans. It allows the vet to get a slightly lower interest rate (about a quarter point or less). But the VA does put all sorts of silly things in the way of getting those loans. My first house, the VA had to do an inspection. They came up with a list of things that were deal killers. The one I remember that almost nixed the deal was that the owners didn’t have splash rocks at the bottom of the downspouts. They had the little elbow piece at the bottom, but nothing after that. The VA would not sign off on the loan until that was corrected and they came back out to inspect again. Awfully ticky-tacky if you ask me.

@MrGrimm888 SS was originally started as a sort of forced savings for people. Before that people were left up to their own devices and many, as they got older, found themselves having to work until they died or to end up living with relatives or on the street. But as you said, it isn’t much. What really hits me is that even with SS, we are basically back to where we were when it was first implemented.

And really, you can thank Congresses and Presidents past for SS being in the condition it is in. They saw a great big pot of money and had to figure out how it could benefit them. It became part of a giant shell game in the budget. As a result, the trust fund was beaten silly. No consideration was given to how much was going to be needed in the future and it was just allowed to get drained.

^Agreed. That’s my understanding.

I heard about SS drying up, when I was like 20. I was like “what’s the big deal? They’ll figure out how to make it work.”
20 years later, surprise!
I fucking hate hate our government.
They vote themselves raises, and every 3 months they punt the budget.
I don’t see this as a party issue. This is a systematic failure of the US government.
All they do, is fail…

It absolutely is not a party issue. I agree. In the 90+ years that SS has been around, it has been bounced into and out of the budget about 4 times. I believe the original idea is that all the money would go into one fund that could be controlled by one party. Investing, etc was all done for the good of that fund. Then it became the control of Congress. And we all know how they deal with money.

@seawulf575 It’s criminal how our government handles the budget and definately all of them are responsible. Imagine living on a private luxury estate while our seniors/children/disabled are unable to pay for a decent rental or medication or food. I’m with @MrGrimm888 I hate hate hate our government.

I believe the original idea is that all the money would go into one fund that could be controlled by one party. Investing, etc was all done for the good of that fund.

Social Security is not an investment fund, subject to the vagaries of the market. It is an entitlement. Retiree’s benefits are spelled out by law, not by current stock market conditions.

Population and GDP growth mostly assures that current workers can pay the retiree’s benefits.

If there is an imbalance (like the massive Baby Boomer retirement cohort), a responsible Congress can adjust the law to keep the money flow in balance.

Ronald Reagan and the Democratic-controlled Congress made such an adjustment in 1983. If Republicans want Social Security to succeed, they can make it so.

But they don’t want that. They want to siphon the revenue stream into the volatile stock market, and make elderly Americans bear the risk instead of giving them a modest guaranteed income.

I once had a friend send me a picture of a Social Security office in Milwaukee. The place was jam packed. Not a single gray hair in sight.

@seawulf575 You do realize that doesn’t mean anything. They could all be disabled or have dyed their hair. I think SS is pretty competent and there is not that much widespread fraud as you might believe.

Overpaying by the government to corporations for military contracts I can well believe!

I once had a friend send me a picture of a Social Security office in Milwaukee. The place was jam packed. Not a single gray hair in sight.

Thanks for the random unverified anecdote. Is that a good basis for forming a political opinion and vote?

But I wish we could get these people off of the streets. It doesn’t help that average rent is astronomical.

I saw a special once documenting a town in California and their homeless crisis. Quite a few of the homeless people that they interviewed did not want the shelter that was being provided, preferring to live on the streets. Most said they simply didn’t want a roof over their heads and wanted to live outside, while others said they didn’t want to follow the rules that would come with it. The documentary showed a building with many apartments in it that were specifically to get the homeless off of the streets and it was mostly empty.

I don’t know the percentage of those who would like a home vs. those who wouldn’t. I imagine but don’t know that a colder climate might be more of an incentive to live indoors.

@janbb Yep, I do know it doesn’t prove anything. But I also know when I go to the SS office, there are a large number of people that aren’t there because they are 65. Many look perfectly healthy, no mobility issues, etc. Again, doesn’t prove anything, but does look very odd.

As for SS fraud, it is probably a lot more than you might believe. Several billion dollars a year. Now, not all of that is because of incompetency by the administration. Some of it is scammers, hackers, and the like stealing SSNs…things like that. But the administration has a gap as well since they have no way of checking. And they don’t clean out their lists very often. When I was looking into it I found that they had quite a few active numbers that were for people over 112 years old and some were still collecting benefits. Highly unlikely.

I’m glad we can apply fo SS on line now so I don’t have to stand in line and be judged as to whether I belong there or not.

@seawulf575 I suspect that the people you see that are younger looking (than 65) and appear to be healthy may be there for Disability for psych reasons, or for survivors’ benefits (when someone dies and they have kids who are then eligible for SS, the parent applies for it). Also, spouses are eligible for something, from what I understand. I also have friends who are the recipients of their disabled siblings’ SS, to maintain the money, otherwise the siblings, who are challenged intellectually, might have to pay someone to do it since they are in no way capable of handling money or figuring things out on their own. One friends who is the keeper of her brother’s SS, the brother is challenged intellectually, and the other friend who is the keepr of her brother’s, the brother is mentally ill, so at any time, people like my friends, who are 100% physically and appearance-wise totally fine, may be in the SS office to straighten things out.

@jca2 I’m sure a lot of that is going on. But the point is that much of the money taken in by Social Security is not going for helping seniors to retire. It is being used, increasingly, by anyone that can find some way to use “free money”. When you see a room full of people and none of them are there for retirement reasons, it suddenly looks like that is no longer the major importance of the program. And yet that is what they always want to fearmonger about when discussion of cuts are brought up.

My personal feeling is very simple: Don’t give me piddly payments stretched out over a long period of time. Give me one lump sum equal to the amount of money I have paid into the system and I will not bother the SSA ever again.

It is being used, increasingly, by anyone that can find some way to use “free money”.

Please provide more data than your personal visit to the Social Security if you want to appear earnest and credible.

Thanks in advance.

@seawulf575 What does 65 years old look like? Or even 62½ (SS’s age for early retirement at a reduced amount). What does a disability look like, physical mental or emotional? What does a foster-parent look like?

Please don’t judge folks for their appearance if you don’t know their story.

@janbb
Now, about that popcorn…

@Strauss With or without butter on it?

Lots butter! I love it when you get those flippers all buttery and…uh-oh! I’ve said too much!

I knew a guy who scammed SS.

Pancakes too please.

@Strauss What does a 65 yo look like? A lot different than a 20 something or 30 something. I’m 63 and am told I look 50. When I still look like one of the oldest people in the room, it is pretty sad.

His voters look at it like, I’m going to make Mexico pay for the wall. They knew Mexico would not pay for the wall and they believe that he means only to cut criminals who shouldn’t be collecting from collecting. They don’t get that he and Republicans want to dismantle the whole thing. Like when they kept talking about replacing Obama care and what they really wanted to do was destroy it, only by then it was too late. Then they talked about improving it and renaming it and again they had nothing better to offer. Republican leaders in poor states know this would be their demise it they touch SS.

Here’s a good article about the solvency of Social Security, what can can be done to raise more funds, and the lack of any major fraud in Social Security:

https://robertreich.substack.com/p/the-biggest-contrast-in-the-upcoming?r=r3ahs&utm_medium=ios&fbclid=IwAR3MSlpeEW7uziDUudUa65XuGjksBFQuLWgMXDG7tl5mfVJLiWT7WzHF-Sg&triedRedirect=true

@Pandora Are you so certain that the current state of conservative voters will care if their interests are met?

I’m with you, for the most part.

But us non-Trumpers, have been fooled into thinking his supporters have common sense before….2016…

The truth is that there is a portion of the American people, who think of Trump as a God.
He is beyond reproach.
He is infallible.
He is a genius.
He is all powerful.
He’s a self-made billionaire, because of his mastery in business deals.
He’s a true patriot.

But.

He’s also a victim.
Everyone’s got it out for this nice old American man.
It’s not like he rose to financial success through a life of shady dealings, and ripping off the common man (ie NYC construction workers/unions.)~

Nothing Trump has done, or ever will do, can tarnish him to his sheep.

My father had a massive heart attack at 42. He got a disabled parking permit, but that caused him a lot of grief, because people thought he looked healthy.

^I had an issue like that with my mom. She had lung cancer, but it wasn’t apparent to other people. Before judging, I say be happy you or yours do not need a handicap space and move on.

@MrGrimm888 So you are a Trump supporter! Great to know! After all, you can tell us all how they think and what they want! That means you must be a Trump supporter.

^I am indeed. All hail the God King Trump!
If you want to support him, I’ll accept checks/money orders.
I’m just trying to be a true patriot.

I just realized the errors in my ways, and I have accepted DJT as my lord and savior. And of course, denounced all others.

I’m raising money to help Don with his legal problems.
Did you know that 30 insurance companies denied giving Trump a loan, to pay his half a billion dollar bond?

Now he has to come up with a really high bond, like a normal US citizen.

Why, a normal person would have to sell everything, and do whatever it took to get the money.
We can’t have our God King selling his millions of dollars of ill gotten property, like some type of responsible person.

We just need to raise enough to get some really shady group or person to help him.

Yeah @MrGrimm888 you forgot to keep saying hoax, witch hunt and all the Democrats fault poor little Trump is just a innocent pawn in this take down Dementia-Don. conspiracy.
Did I get that right Wulfie?

@MrGrimm888 I’m talking about the partially sane ones who support him because he is a Republican and believes that Trump meets their other goals. Like racism., abortion rights or getting rid of women’s rights. They don’t care so long as Trump helps to be rid of minorities that they blame is the cause of their poverty, or because our country is all Christian. The insane are just simply insane. They believe that being Christian, or white or simply Republican will keep the worse from affecting them. Hate is what controls their vote. Not really common sense. They refuse to see that Trump and the Republicans don’t see them as valuable human beings but as pawns to power that can be and will be sacrificed any time its needed. The moment you decide one race isn’t worthy of existing then you see all lives as expendable. But you can’t see that if your heart is buried in hatred. Doesn’t make them insane, just blind to truth.

I’m not trying to nail Wulf to a cross.
I’m just touchy about American politics. I could just vomit, watching this formerly/potentially great nation fall apart like this.

With extremists on both sides pulling at the fabric of society, trying to tear everything apart.
We’ve all unwound a bit.
Some more than others.

@Pandora I can’t fault your observations. I will say that I believe that most of them.are led by fear ultimately.
That can be shaped into hate, by figures that stir the shit.

Most subjects ARE pretty important, and oh my the stakes!

The oil has separated, from the water.
We are undone as a nation.
WE are allowing differences to divide us, instead of strengthen us.

We deserve Trump.
Who better to lead the march to Armageddon!

@MrGrimm888 How is this country falling apart? I can tell you, but you don’t want to hear it. What specifically did Trump do to destroy this country? Not generalities, not opinions, not lies…what specifically did he do to destroy the country. You can’t even use J6 since it has now come out that the J6 committee lied and suppressed evidence. But that is close to what is wrong with the country….the lies. And Trump isn’t the one pushing them.

So there is your challenge. What exactly did Trump do to destroy this country?

Please ask your own question on a new thread @seawulf575.
This question was about SS.
I think your question could get some interesting responses.

@chyna Might want to talk to @Pandora and @MrGrimm888 for sidelining this thread. They are the ones that couldn’t overcome their TDS. Go back and look.

^I know they got side tracked also. I just wanted you to ask your question in a new thread because I really think it’s an interesting question. I’m being very sincere about this.

@chyna I’ll think about it. Unfortunately there are too many jellies that have TDS for it to truly be an effective question. I’d be looking for thoughtful, rational discussion and I would receive all sorts of garbage, even in the general level. I’d be accused of asking loaded questions, I’d be accused of just wanting to argue with people, and I’d get a whole lot of just anti-Trump rhetoric. I’ve heard it all before. But it makes no sense and asking the question again wouldn’t get any different results. The jellies that respond that way don’t want to think about all their biases. They don’t want to question their hatred of Trump. They don’t want to think about all the lies they have been told. I believe they are physically and psychologically incapable of doing it.

To be fair, aren’t pretty much all political questions “loaded?”

This very thread’s question has it’s flaws.

^So don’t follow it.

^If a question not being fair and/or biased disqualified it from my attention, there would be no Fluther.

I was simply making what I considered a valid observation.

It was not criticism.